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The Beast, the Anti-Christ and his False Prophet

Discussion in 'Biblical Debates' started by EnhancedSpirit, May 15, 2005.

  1. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Ok, it seems that a lot of people are talking about this lately. It keeps coming up on television and in conversations going on around me. This is usually how I conduct my studies of scripture. When something gets put in front of me over and over again, I take it as a course of study.

    I am shaking as I write this. I am almost afraid to put the words down. I have read many interpretaions of what these images mean. And almost every one of them uses the beast as an image of governments.

    When I looked at these verses, I see this. The beast is organized religion. Each head using blashemous names, and one of them being slain and come back to life.


    The anti-christ is science. And the false prophet, the second beast being a puppet of the first, is Christianity, and Jesus.
    And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. Revelation 13:14

    Would it not be in the character of Satan to use our own saviour against us? I am not suggesting that Jesus is the false prophet, I'm saying that Satan uses our belief in Jesus against us. He has manipulated believers to worship Jesus as a God, therefore breaking one of the commandments. Science is starting to 'uncover' evidence of Jesus, and will further sway people to believe he was a God.

    Please note that I am not saying that Christians are evil, or that we should not believe in Christ. I am saying that Satan is a crafty character. Jesus spoke against organized religion, and how it made it's own use of God's laws. I'm not saying that church is a bad thing, but we should watch carefully what is in our hearts. Remember always what Jesus taught us. Not what the church taught us.

    I don't know what else to say about this. But I had to share this because I am very shaken up by my thoughts on this.
     
  2. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    this is what jehovahs witness know from their study of the bible regarding the image of the wild beast



    The​
    Image of the Wild Beast





    Is this two-horned wild beast as innocent as its lamblike horns would indicate? John goes on to say: "And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast."—Revelation 13:14, 15.







    What is this "image of the wild beast," and what is its purpose? The purpose is to promote the worship of the seven-headed wild beast of which it is an image and thus, in effect, to perpetuate the existence of the wild beast. This image is constructed after the seven-headed wild beast revives from its sword stroke, The two-horned wild beast breathes life into this image so that the image can live and play a role in world history.


    The outworking of history identifies this image as the organization proposed, promoted, and supported by Britain and the United States and known initially as the League of Nations. Later, in Revelation chapter 17, it will appear under a different symbol, that of a living, breathing scarlet-colored wild beast having an independent existence. This international body ‘speaks,’ in that it makes boastful claims to be the only one able to bring peace and security to mankind. It has threatened with ostracism, or a living death, any nation or people that does not bow to its authority. It has actually expelled nations that fail to abide by its ideologies. At the onset of the great tribulation, militaristic "horns" of this image of the wild beast will fulfill a devastating role.—Revelation 7:14; 17:8, 16.​

    Since World War II, the image of the wild beast—now manifests as the United Nations organization—world leaders, including popes Paul VI and John Paul II, have continued to affirm that this image is man’s last and best hope for peace. If mankind fails to serve it, they insist, the human race will destroy itself. They thus figuratively cause to be killed all humans who refuse to go along with the image and worship it.—Compare Deuteronomy 5:8, 9


     
  3. Lloyd

    Lloyd Member

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    I have trouble buying the idea that John Paul II went to war against the Lamb. If the saintly deeds and teachings of John Paul II are Satan's idea of overcoming Christ than I don't think we have anything to worry about. A house divided against itself cannot stand.

    Anyhoo, I definitely sympathize with the interpretation of Revelation that there could be a radical disconnect between Christ and his followers. I get the sense that there are quite a few people out there who are so cold-hearted, and so thick-headed in matters of religion that they manage to worship Jesus as an idol and not the compassionate Messiah we know from the Gospels, particularly when said people ascibe their own personal beliefs to Christ without justification

    That's my two cents.
     
  4. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    Gods kingdom is the only way that peace will be accomplished ,not the united nations organization. so if so called christians put their trust in worldly organizations and not look to Gods kingdom ,then they would be fighting the lamb because the lamb (jesus christ) is king of Gods kingdom in the heavens since 1914 .

    Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,​

    Nor in the son of earthling man, to whom no salvation belongs(psalm 146;3)also daniel 2;44tells us that only Gods kingdom will bring peace​


    "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite...............so anyone who opposes jesus kingship is fighting the lamb.

    For there has been a child born to us, there has been a son given to us; and the princely rule will come to be upon his shoulder. And his name will be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Eternal Father, Prince of Peace. To the abundance of the princely rule and to peace there will be no end, upon the throne of David and upon his kingdom in order to establish it firmly and to sustain it by means of justice and by means of righteousness, from now on and to time indefinite. The very zeal of Jehovah of armies will do this(isaiah 9;6-7)








     
  5. Cr0wley

    Cr0wley More Human Than Human

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    As a Satanist, I thnk ths isn't just the work of Satan. This is human error, herd conformity. Christians unfortunatily have the knack of being like lemmings, if one says something's right, everyone follows. I mean no insult to anyone, that's just how I see it...
     
  6. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    All this sounds like Religion. People have been killed for not following certain beliefs. And Christians say that their way is the only way, and has made an image that they worship.

    I am not saying this is a conscious thing, and Satan, is a force of nature that distorts how we see reality. Sorry, Crowley, but our blind faith is leading us to slaughter. Have faith in the words and works of Jesus. Not the words and works of the Church.

     
  7. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Then, again, there is always the possibility that we're dealing with a nut case or, what is probably more likely, an appeal to the mysticism of the day.
     
  8. Halcyon

    Halcyon Lord of the Badgers

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    Keep this in mind then re-read the NT, plus the gospel of Thomas, Philip and the other version of John - you might find the real Jesus.
     
  9. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    Umm, no? Christianity a puppet of science? You have got to be kidding me. Quite a few christians vehemently deny many scientific discoveries.

    Where?

    Just what image do I worship? I would like you to point it out, because as far as I know, I never worshipped one. Oh, and Jesus said He is the only way.

    This is truth.
     
  10. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    "The Scriptures declare, `My Temple will be called a place of prayer for all nations,' but you have turned it into a den of thieves." Mark 11:17

    Jesus invades the Temple. This was to be a place of prayer. This place was to open to all the nations. This place wasn't about making a profit off people seeking God. This place wasn't about merchandising the grace of God.

    Jesus never said to worship him, but the Father. Jesus never said to display his dead body on a cross for worship. He never said 'make statues of my mother', this is idolatry.

    Christianity is not the puppet of science. It is the puppet of organized religion (the first beast). I am not saying that Christianity is bad. I'm saying that Satan will use it against us.
     
  11. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    I still fail to see anything against organized religion.

    Jesus accepted worship, even angels when worshipped told the people to stop.

    No one worships the cross, not that I know of at least. It is a memorial, we place it up to constantly remind us of the sacrifice Jesus made.

    This is an arguement you will have to make with a member of the Roman Catholic/Orthodox Church.

    Ok sorry for the misunderstanding. The first Beast is usually called the Anti-Christ.

    Just how do you define Organized religion? You make it sound like an entity of its own. Anyway there are many un-organized christians, generalizing Christianity takes in ALOT.

    Satan will use anything he can. I have no doubt that some "christians" and "christian" organizations are his tools.
     
  12. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    Matthew 4:10 Jesus said to him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: `Worship the Lord your God, and serve him only.'"

    John 5:19 Jesus gave them this answer: "I tell you the truth, the Son can do nothing by himself; he can do only what he sees his Father doing, because whatever the Father does the Son also does.
    Deut.5:8)You shall not make for yourself a graven image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; 9)you shall not bow down to them or serve them;

    Through the images which we kiss...or bend the knee, adore Christ and venerate the saints, whom they represent. This is putting someone before God.

    Here is a site that explains my view on this. Who or What Is—The Antichrist? In explaining the Woman who rides the beast. It is explained that 'woman' is a symbol for 'church'. This site explains much more than that.

    Again, the above site explains this better than I can. I can't believe I just found this site. I have always read that the beast was 'governments'. The idea of the beast being religion was something that came to me, independant of anything I had ever heard. Now I know I am not the only one.

    Actually people are the tools. And many people can be lethal. All I'm trying to say is this:
    The Devil's in the Details.
     
  13. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    ES,
    I'll have to go looking for a site I found awhile back which proposed that the beast was actually the secular government and the woman was a symbol of the churches who rode on the back of this government...the one world religion approach, I guess. I'll see if I can find it and post the link.
     
  14. EnhancedSpirit

    EnhancedSpirit High Priestess

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    This is the interpretation I had always heard of, I'm sure you can find many links because it has been decribed as such for a long time, and accepted by many. I do not know why I came up with this alternate idea. I think it had to do with the fact that one of the heads of the first beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. Jesus was cut with as proof that he was dead, then lived again. And it makes boastful claims to be the only one able to bring peace and security to mankind. Religion is the only place I have seen these kind of claims made.
     
  15. may

    may Well-Known Member

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    the united nations makes this claim,it started off as the league of nationsbut was revived as the united nations andmakes boastful claims that it is the only way to peace but does not recgonize Gods kingdom
     
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  16. Mister Emu

    Mister Emu Emu Extraordinaire
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    It was a spear, not a sword.
     
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