The Beast and Rome

[Dawnofhope]

There was NO Daniel.. Danel was a popular hero among the north coast Canaanites.. The Hebrews borrowed him and just kept adding to the story over a period of 500 years.

The Bible stories are wonderful fiction.. and the story of the Jews is far more remarkable, heroic, complicated and amazing than anything written in the OT or the NT.

That’s certainly the view of the majority of academics and as with much that happened over two thousand years ago it’s difficult to prove anything one way or the other. The only first century historical references to Christ outside the New Testament works are from Josephus and Tacitus, not without controversy.

The best arguments against Daniel is the impossibility of predicting future events along with the absence of Daniel from early versions of the Hebrew Bible. They are compelling arguments but the existence of the prophet Daniel can not be definitively excluded for one who believes in God and His Prophets.

 

[Dawnofhope]

It is possible that prophesies,apocalyptic literature, and other symbolic references in scripture applies in a cyclic manner over time in different Revelations over time in the spiritual evolution of humanity,

There is no doubt the cyclical aspects as some of the prophecies Jesus fulfilled are also stated as signs accompanying a future Messiah (or Christ). It may be the same for the four beasts in Daniel thought the author(s) are clear about the identity of the first three beasts. For me, the fourth beast could be both the Roman Empire and the corrupted Islamic Caliphates. Alternatively the third beast could be the Greco-Roman Empire. Relative to the importance of being a decent human being who lives the life, interpreting prophecy is not the main priority.

 

[Prince Mthembu]

I'm going to take a shot at this. My sense of History is a bit fuzzy right now, but this post just amounts to me asking for opinions and evidence of views:

I'm skeptical Revelation talks about the future as it applies today - It seems to be a book talking about the Roman Empire yet making prophecies which never came to truly pass.

Those that assert Revelation is future events, need to at the very least prove how Revelation isn't about Rome since it just seems to fit the descriptions. If you do believe it's Rome... I'd like to hear what you think is going to happen.

I've figured recently that Roman law is prevalent in the world that is how the beast is in operation but the rest of what's going to happen I can't really grasp as yet, however Angel Gabriel advised Daniel that the code in prophecy can only deciphered by those living and present in that era. I suppose applying logic to it can definitely blow it out of proportion but one things is certain, in any case, the beast will be empowered to have dominance over the saints before all is consummate. Don;t ask me how just fast for it!

 

[Diamond]

Most of Daniel and Isaiah are not about the future or even the destruction of the Temple.. The Evangelicals have been hijacked by the likes of Hal Lindsey and others who make their living telling Christians its all in some far distant future in direct contradiction to the Revelation letter.

The bible is a Fiction Novel,I wouldn't sweet it

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

I'm going to take a shot at this. My sense of History is a bit fuzzy right now, but this post just amounts to me asking for opinions and evidence of views:

I'm skeptical Revelation talks about the future as it applies today - It seems to be a book talking about the Roman Empire yet making prophecies which never came to truly pass.

Those that assert Revelation is future events, need to at the very least prove how Revelation isn't about Rome since it just seems to fit the descriptions. If you do believe it's Rome... I'd like to hear what you think is going to happen.

I go a step further and ask: why should I even care at all, what "revelation" has to say?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

They are compelling arguments but the existence of the prophet Daniel can not be definitively excluded for one who believes in God and His Prophets.

Neither can you exclude the existence of the 7-headed extra-dimensional dragon that follows me around everywhere.

Pointing to the logical impossibility of proving that a thing that isn't self-contradictory (like a "married bachelor") doesn't exist as some kind of way to rationalise ones belief in that thing, is an argument from ignorance right out the gates. Not to mention that it can be used for just about anything your imagination can produce.

It's existence that needs to be demonstrated / supported. The non-existence of a thing can't logically be demonstrated or supported.

Positive / negative claims and burden of proof and all that...

 

[Muffled]

I'm going to take a shot at this. My sense of History is a bit fuzzy right now, but this post just amounts to me asking for opinions and evidence of views:

I'm skeptical Revelation talks about the future as it applies today - It seems to be a book talking about the Roman Empire yet making prophecies which never came to truly pass.

Those that assert Revelation is future events, need to at the very least prove how Revelation isn't about Rome since it just seems to fit the descriptions. If you do believe it's Rome... I'd like to hear what you think is going to happen.

I believe you have already said it. The predictions have not come to pass s it can't be Rome no matter what it seems to a person

 

[Muffled]

Ok prove it's about Rome.

Where in Revelations does it say these events take place in Rome?

I believe actually that John is raised up into the heavens to view things but it appears he is seeing what happens on earth.

 

[Muffled]

I find Revelation to be highly symbolic and metaphorical. I don't think it fits with specific literal events.

I believe there is no reason why the symbolism can't refer to events. It certainly did in Daniel.

 

[sooda]

There is no doubt the cyclical aspects as some of the prophecies Jesus fulfilled are also stated as signs accompanying a future Messiah (or Christ). It may be the same for the four beasts in Daniel thought the author(s) are clear about the identity of the first three beasts. For me, the fourth beast could be both the Roman Empire and the corrupted Islamic Caliphates. Alternatively the third beast could be the Greco-Roman Empire. Relative to the importance of being a decent human being who lives the life, interpreting prophecy is not the main priority.

Daniel 7:3 A Preterist Commentary : The Four Beasts are Four Empires. The four beasts in Daniel’s vision symbolize the four Gentile empires that had conquered Israel before the arrival of the kingdom of God. According to v. 3 all four beasts rose-up out of the sea.
Daniel 7: A Preterist Commentary | Revelation Revolution
revelationrevolution.org/daniel-7-a-preterist-commentary/

 

[sooda]

There are several interpretations of Daniel.
This covers all of them I think.

In chapter 7, Daniel has a vision of four beasts coming up out of the sea, and is told that they represent four kingdoms:

• A beast like a lion with eagle's wings; represents Babylon under Nebuchadnezzar.
• A beast like a bear, raised up on one side, with three ribs between its teeth;represents Medo-Persia...
• A beast like a leopard with four wings...

Four kingdoms of Daniel - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_kingdoms_of_Daniel

 

[Fool]

I'm going to take a shot at this. My sense of History is a bit fuzzy right now, but this post just amounts to me asking for opinions and evidence of views:

I'm skeptical Revelation talks about the future as it applies today - It seems to be a book talking about the Roman Empire yet making prophecies which never came to truly pass.

Those that assert Revelation is future events, need to at the very least prove how Revelation isn't about Rome since it just seems to fit the descriptions. If you do believe it's Rome... I'd like to hear what you think is going to happen.

revelation says it's imminent. exhale, relax.


Rev 1:3 NIV Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.


Deuteronomy 29:4
But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.


Matthew 13:15
For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hearwith their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’


I AM always with you, the Lord is within you. I AM that I AM, I WILL be that that I AM.

 

[sooda]

revelation says it's imminent. exhale, relax.


Rev 1:3 NIV Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near.


Deuteronomy 29:4
But to this day the Lord has not given you a mind that understands or eyes that see or ears that hear.


Matthew 13:15
For this people’s heart has become calloused; they hardly hear with their ears, and they have closed their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hearwith their ears, understand with their hearts and turn, and I would heal them.’


I AM always with you, the Lord is within you. I AM that I AM, I WILL be that that I AM.

To me it says over and over again that the time is near, soon to come, within a generation. The Temple was destroyed during the grape harvest 42 months after the troubles began by Titus and the foreign legions under his command who fought for the Roman Empire.

 

[Fool]

To me it says over and over again that the time is near, soon to come, within a generation. The Temple was destroyed during the grape harvest 42 months after the troubles began by Titus and the foreign legions under his command who fought for the Roman Empire.

the trouble was with the abomination placed at the temple. the final straw was idolatry. the jewish god is never associated with a form in the context of jewish understanding.





Caligula gave an order to set up his statue in the Holy of Holies in the Temple:


An Important and Little-Known Fact About the Temple of Jerusalem

 

[sooda]

the trouble was with the abomination placed at the temple. the final straw was idolatry. the jewish god is never associated with a form in the context of jewish understanding.





Caligula gave an order to set up his statue in the Holy of Holies in the Temple:


An Important and Little-Known Fact About the Temple of Jerusalem

Titus and Vespasian demanded they be worshipped in the Temple.. Sort of a replay of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 165 BC.

 

[Fool]

Titus and Vespasian demanded they be worshipped in the Temple.. Sort of a replay of Antiochus IV Epiphanes in 165 BC.

https://thetorah.com/why-did-vespasian-and-titus-destroy-jerusalem/


the kingdom of god is within us, arnion.



John 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

 

[sooda]

https://thetorah.com/why-did-vespasian-and-titus-destroy-jerusalem/


the kingdom of god is within us, arnion.



John 2:21
But he spake of the temple of his body.

1 Corinthians 6:19
What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

Good link. pretty straightforward.