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The Attributes Of God

Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
osgart said:
I am interested!

I know Christians can rationalize anything to themselves to make The Bible seem to fit to their own ways. But it doesnt really fit with what the Bible says.

I dont think anyone could possibly follow that book. It is unintelligible.

I am more interested in why, and how they rationalize their faith.
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I think it goes both ways

"I know-of non-Christians that can rationalize anything to themselves to make The Bible say what they want it to say. But it doesnt really fit with what the Bible says.

I myself have lived with non-believers, and they all have their versions of what is right. And i am amazed how they justify their actions, and behaviours. "
 
osgart

osgart

Nothing my eye, Something for sure
Evangelicalhumanist said:
Okay, if you are interested, what I was really getting at was not "what" people believe, but rather "whether they actually believe what they think they do." And very, very often, I think the answer to that is "no!"

So how do you find that out? Often, fairly simply. An example: I believe that little spiral of metal on the top of my stove, if it is glowing red, would be a really, really bad thing to rest my hand on. Trust me, I believe that, because as someone who loves to cook, I've burned (and cut) myself often enough to give me a some confidence my belief is correct. As a result, I would never, ever, unless coerced in a way I could not control, put my hand on that burner. That's belief! That's visceral, for real, heart-felt belief.

So try the same test with any other supposed belief. If a Christian tells you he profoundly believes what Christ said when he said "love others as I have loved you," and then ask them what they fell about the gay couple down the street, you might find that their supposed belief doesn't actually align with their behaviours. So then you have to ask yourself, which is the real them...their stated belief, or their treatment of those neighbours?

Here's a trivial challenge … try looking at Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, or any number of other religious leaders through that lens, and see if you conclude that they really believe in the Christ they pretend to know.
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Billy Graham was the most sincere believer out there. He bought into it all whole heartedly. His idea of loving a gay couple was to warn them of how sinful that was to God.

Falwell, and Robertson are bad examples. They are obviously of a Christianity that is more legalistic, and they cant live up to it.

My only point is that there are Christians that are ultra sincere about it. The strength of the delusion is their conviction to it. They have OT rationale's all day long, and they follow Paul's teachings, and the NT whole heartedly.
 
Evangelicalhumanist

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
KenS said:
I don't think so.

One can know that God is a God of love and yet cannot fathom the depth of His love.
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Really, or the interminable extent of his rage (visiting the iniquities of the fathers upon the sons even to the third and fourth generation)...both Exodus and Numbers.
KenS said:
One can know that God is Jehovah Jireh yet not understand how much He can provide.
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And how many starve, each and every day, around this little world of ours? I can see, by the way, the Red Cross and many other charitable organizations doing their level best to help, but I see absolutely zero effort from an omnipotent deity.
KenS said:
And although I may know my wife more than God, both are unfathomable... but God is just a whole lot more unfathomable than my wife. :D
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Then you've made the mistake that far too many make...you didn't listen to her. And therefore, possibly, to Him.
 
Brickjectivity

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.

.
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Charles Spurgeon is a prolific author (now dead) that many preachers use as reference when making sermons. He fills a niche. Calvinists have their Calvin. Catholics have their stuff. The various protestants preachers need someone, too. He is cited often.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.
.
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Let's cut to the chase.

IF as the list says, God is incomprehensible, THEN it's impossible to attribute any other quality to [him].

Making the list meaningless, which much of it is anyway ('eternal', 'omnipotent', 'omniscient', 'omnipresent', 'infinite', 'self-existent', 'transcendent', are imaginary attributes, not found in reality).
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.

.
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not seeing a problem with that list
see Knowing God by JI Packer

 
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W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
blü 2 said:
Let's cut to the chase.

IF as the list says, God is incomprehensible, THEN it's impossible to attribute any other quality to [him].

Making the list meaningless, which much of it is anyway ('eternal', 'omnipotent', 'omniscient', 'omnipresent', 'infinite', 'self-existent', 'transcendent', are imaginary attributes, not found in reality).
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Incomprehensible has more to do with unfathomable, you can't get to the depths of God and I would say even through eternity

It doesn't mean you can't learn anything and can't learn it more and more (with His help)

"This is eternal life that they may know you and Jesus Christ who you have sent" John 17:3
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
whirlingmerc said:
Incomprehensible has more to do with unfathomable, you can't get to the depths of God and I would say even through eternity
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If you can't fathom God, if you can't comprehend God, and clearly that's what's been said then to speak of God is not to know what you're talking about.

(That conclusion is independently supported by a heap of other evidence.)
whirlingmerc said:
It doesn't mean you can't learn anything and can't learn it more and more (with His help)
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But that's not what the OP says.

And why load this incomprehensible being up with such imaginary qualities as I mentioned ─ omnipotence, infinite, self-existent, &c? Talk me through the process by which a self-existent being comes into existence, for example,
 
W

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
blü 2 said:
If you can't fathom God, if you can't comprehend God, and clearly that's what's been said then to speak of God is not to know what you're talking about.

(That conclusion is independently supported by a heap of other evidence.)
But that's not what the OP says.

And why load this incomprehensible being up with such imaginary qualities as I mentioned ─ omnipotence, infinite, self-existent, &c? Talk me through the process by which a self-existent being comes into existence, for example,
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In this case fathom means get completely to the bottom of it. It does not mean God is eternally opaque.

However in a sense 'unless you are born again you cannot SEE the kingdom of God' you need His help for that. In a real sense God is seen in what Christ is like.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
whirlingmerc said:
In this case fathom means get completely to the bottom of it. It does not mean God is eternally opaque.
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It means that the list of qualities of God listed in the OP have no other source than the imagination of particular humans. As I mention from time to time, there is NO definition of God such that if we found a real candidate we could tell whether it were God or not. There is no definition of 'godness' such that we could distinguish a real God from eg a superscientist. Instead, as we have here, we have ascriptions of imaginary qualities (which I listed earlier) which can only apply to an imaginary God.
whirlingmerc said:
However in a sense 'unless you are born again you cannot SEE the kingdom of God' you need His help for that. In a real sense God is seen in what Christ is like.
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Unless God, and the Kingdom of God, are real, exist in the world external to the self, in nature, then they only exist in imagination. What might 'born again' mean that could alter that?
 
Salvador

Salvador

RF's Swedenborgian
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.

.
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God defined as the Creator of our genetic coding does have one highly distinctive and discernible attribute that being knowledgeable of base ten math and its remarkable computational power. This is evident by how the numeric and semantic message of 037 appears in our genetic code. Each codon relates to 3 other particular codons having the same particular type of initial nucleobase and sequential nucleobase subsequently then followed by a different ending nucleobase. Half of these 4 set of codon groups ( whole family codons ) each code for the same particular amino acid. The other half of those 4 set of codon groups ( split codons ) don't code for the same amino acid. So then, in the case of whole family codons, there are 37 amino acid peptide chain nucleons for each relevant nucleobase determinant of how a particular amino acid gets coded. Start codons express 0 at the beginning of 37 Hence, the meaningful numeric and semantic message of 037 gets unambiguously and factually conveyed to us present day human Earthlings with our genetic code invented by a superior intelligence beyond that of anybody presently bound to Earth.

Reference: The "Wow! signal" of the terrestrial genetic code. Vladimir l. shCherbak and Maxim A. Makukov. Icarus, May 2013,Redirectinghttps://www.scribd.com/document/35302916...netic-Code
 
Windwalker

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
SalixIncendium said:
Wow! That's quite a list!!

Below is a comprehensive list of attributes of my God, also known as Nirguna Brahman:













.
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Saguna Brahman however can be and is often described by all these qualities. So those who experience Brahman these ways, speak of these qualities in terms of Absolutes.
 
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Quintessence

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
It's a good layout of classical monotheism. Would be very useful as a starting point for understanding when referencing the one-god of the Abrahamic religions.
 
blü 2

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
KenS said:
I think it goes both ways

"I know-of non-Christians that can rationalize anything to themselves to make The Bible say what they want it to say. But it doesnt really fit with what the Bible says.

I myself have lived with non-believers, and they all have their versions of what is right. And i am amazed how they justify their actions, and behaviours. "
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Our behaviors are a mix of genetic tendencies which we all share, and cultural norms, which can vary quite a bit.

I myself use the not-entirely-defined notion of decency, which includes inclusion, civility, fairness, reciprocity, kindness, honesty and openness, and reliability.

You don't have to ask, What would Jesus do? You just do the decent thing, and then Jesus can only nod in agreement.
 
viole

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.

.
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Amazing how many attributes He has, while “incomprehensible” being one of them.

Ciao

- viole
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.

.
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my list is soooooo much shorter.....and more direct

bigger, faster, stronger, most intelligent and greatly experienced

if God should fail on any one of these five.....He is not God
 
sealchan

sealchan

Well-Known Member
Skwim said:
Happened to stumble across the following, and am wondering what you think of it (I have no idea who this Spurgeon guy is).



I only ask because I've seen many instances that give lie to some of these attributes.

.
Click to expand...

This is a kind of hope, pray, wish list of Gods attributes IMO.
 
Kenny

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
blü 2 said:
Our behaviors are a mix of genetic tendencies which we all share, and cultural norms, which can vary quite a bit.

I myself use the not-entirely-defined notion of decency, which includes inclusion, civility, fairness, reciprocity, kindness, honesty and openness, and reliability.

You don't have to ask, What would Jesus do? You just do the decent thing, and then Jesus can only nod in agreement.
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That's great! However, the "decent thing" for one person can be indecent for another thus WWJD, for me, seems more appropriate.

For an example, to take the hot subject of abortion, fairness for one person may be "it's my body" but for another it may be "it's not your body and it isn't fair for the
 
Skwim

Skwim

Veteran Member
Brickjectivity said:
Charles Spurgeon is a prolific author (now dead) that many preachers use as reference when making sermons. He fills a niche. Calvinists have their Calvin. Catholics have their stuff. The various protestants preachers need someone, too. He is cited often.
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Thanks for the info.

.
 
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