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The Ark was built by an amateur, the Titanic by professionals, evidence of Arc

God is love

Active Member
Geologists have found sidimentary deposits throughout the world with fossilized remains of animals and plants, oftentimes from different geological, climatic areas of the world, indicator of a world wide flood.

A possible way this occured was with a shift in the axis of the earth due to a comet or astroid. The oceans would overflow the land. It would also cause volcanic activity that would cause dust then condensation and precipitation, a cloud canopy.

Other than the bible there are over 200 historical records that report a similar story. One of these was on cunniform tablets. There are forty accounts from american Indians of the Noah flood before the Europeans arrived in America, the Navjo Indians, for example.

700 years before Christ, there are accounts of pilgrims climbing up to scrape tar off the vessel found on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey to make good luck relics.

300 years before Christ, a Babylonian priest states on tablets that remains of the arc could be seen and some get pitch to make amulets.

30 years before Christ, Egyptian historian of Phonicia mentioned the Arc, {Hieronymous, spelled as it sounded when I heard it}. Nicholas of Damascus mentions the Arc landing near the summit and timber was still there.

Marco Polo wrote of Noah's Arc on Mount Ararat in 1269 A.D.

In 1840 there was an earthquake. Turkish authorities sent teams of workers up the mountain to build protective barriers against the avalanches. One team discovered a part of an old ship. They reported seeing several stalls and cages.

In the 1800's people came to see for themselves. In 1876, a British statesman, a journalist and author, Sir James Brice, returned with a four foot long, five inch wide, partially petrified, hand tooled piece of timber. Newspapers printed the event but most scientists didn't believe it. This discovery came at a time when the theory of evolution was gaining in popularity. In 1883, a Turkish commission investigating avalanches reported that they had seen Noah's arc. "They came upon a gigantic structure of very dark wood protruding from a glacier. It was in a good state of preservation. Four years later in 1887, April 25th, Prince John Joseph Nory saw Noah's arc wedged in the rocks and half filled with snow and ice. It was made of dark wood beams of very thick wood.

In 1902 an Armenian boy went with his uncle and their sheep and goats to Mount Ararat to graze their flocks in summer. When they got to the arc, they piled stones beside it so the boy could climb up to see on top.. The boy said it was long and flat except for a narrow, raised section from bow to stern. with holes in it. There was a big hole in the roof. He peaked in but couldn't see anything. He pulled a piece off the arc. It was made of wood and the grain was visible.

In 1916, two Russian aviators saw the remains of the Arc near a glacial pond while flying over. A report was sent to the tzar . He ordered two companies of soldiers to reach the site to do measurements and photos. There were hundreds of rooms, some had fences or cages.

Many scientists agree the numbers of species in those days would be between 1.544 and 2,392. There would have to be hundreds of rooms to accommadate that many species. Some of those animals in the cold climate and closed quarters would have gone into a hibernation state, making it easier for a small crew {family} to acre for them.

During world war 2 several airmen saw the arc locked in a glacial mass. One of those sightings was reported in a 1943 edition of the U,s army paper "Stars and Stripes". After world war 2, there were many flights over Mount Ararat by the Russsians. They had expeditions year after yaer from 1937-1947. Three photos were taken of the arc by the Russian air force. The prow was in a small body of water on a cliff about 1400 feet.

In 1952 an American pipline engineer George Green saw a portion of the arc when he was on a reconnaissance mission. He saw a portion protruding from the rocks. He reached for his camera and took photographs. In 1955 a French demolition engineer with his son Rapheal saw the arc in a crevice. He found a five foot, hand hewn piece of timber. Mount Ararat was completely barren of trees. He split some of it into pieces to submit to various experts.

One of the experiments was carbon 14 dating but it's accuracy has been criticized because environment can affect the material, contaminate it. He brought the pieces of wood to five prestigeous scientific institutions.

1. The national Museum of Natural History in Paris
2. The national Center of Scientific Research in Madrid
3. The Center of Forestry Research and analysis in France
4. The Department of Prehistoric studies at the University in Bordeaux
5. The world famous Cairo museum

The wood is an oak wood covered with pitch. The tests to determine the gain in wood density and degree of fossilization showed the piece to be around 5,000 years old. The wood is as old as the historic account in the bible of the arc.

This kind of wood has a tight structure that makes the wood virtually waterproof.

The famous american spy plane "The U2" made world wide reconaissance missions for military intelligence. Many flights passed over Mount Ararat on the way to Russia. Many U.S pilots reported seeing what looked like a ship locked in the ice below.

In 1969 Ferdinand Nivera retraced his steps where he found wood in 1955. He started probing and found more wood. It was documented by a movie camera.

In 1972 Nassa launched a satalite. As it circled the earth it photographed Noah's arc. In 1974 an expedition took a photo of a prow. The planking can be seen.

The Turks call this mountain in eastern Turkey "Mountain of the Arc", The Russians call it "Mountain of Noah", The kurds believe that Noah's Arc rests on the mountain.

The summit is permanently covered with glacial ice and snow. Misty clouds create blizzards and at lower elevations thunderstorms. It is a difficult mountain to climb because of the climate and other hazards such as the avalanches, slippery rocks, poisonous snakes, etc. There aren't any trees for shelter or water other than when some glacier ice melts.

However future expeditions on this mountain will have to wait for peace in this sensitive area of the world between Turkey and Russia.

A model was made of the Arc. It had three decks. The top was probably occupied by family and food stuffs. The second level was divided into rows of stalls and tiers of cages. The third was for the storage of waste and balist. An expert estimated the boat's dimensions {length} could have carried 569 railroad cars or up to 30,000 animals and birds.

at a marine labatory they tested the model to see if it would be sea worthy. It had to be large enough to hold all the animals and stable enough to sustain waves of the flood, about 450 feet long and 75 feet wide and 45 feeet high. The model resembeled a long rectangular box. It would be slow moving but stable. The riding effect would be up to a tilt of 90 degrees. It would be allmost imposssible to capsize. It's low center of gravity gave it tremendous stability. It didn't have sails or a rudder but it wasn't designed to go anywhere, just to float.
 

robtex

Veteran Member
God_is_love do you have a source for this post? Be helpful to see the website or no which book this came from.
 

LongGe123

Active Member
Question is though, even with all those dates and testimonies - what does it prove? So what if some guy called Noah DID build an arc and put a bunch of animals in it before a massive flood? It doesn't prove anything cosmically significant. If one were to make a connection between this evidence and the existence of God, then that would be an irrational leap of logic. Unless they find a tablet that says "I built this boat and filled it with animals because God told me to" and then another that says "I, God, give you, Noah, the privilege of advance warning before I kill everyone in the entire world because they wouldn't kiss my sandals. You can start building your boat to save you and your entire pious family you big suck up. Congratulations. Your pal, God", then I'm afraid it doesn't exactly show a great deal.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
My great uncle Designed Built and went down on the Titanic.
The titanic truly existed and can be seen to this day.
It was a very large ship and held a lot of people,But It could not have contained a breeding selection of all the animals in the world.

Myths can hold the entire world, with room to spare.

Terry_______________________
Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
 

JerryL

Well-Known Member
Geologists have found sidimentary deposits throughout the world with fossilized remains of animals and plants, oftentimes from different geological, climatic areas of the world, indicator of a world wide flood.
Rarely, if ever, do animals from different climes show up in the same sedementary layer. There is no geological evidence for a worldwide flood.

A possible way this occured was with a shift in the axis of the earth due to a comet or astroid. The oceans would overflow the land. It would also cause volcanic activity that would cause dust then condensation and precipitation, a cloud canopy.
No, this is not possible. An impact sufficient to substantially move the Earth's axis (which has occured, the moon is the result) would simply destroy all life on Earth and all trace life had been there. The enire crust would be cycled back down into the mantle (the parts that weren't simply blown into or past orbit).

Other than the bible there are over 200 historical records that report a similar story. One of these was on cunniform tablets. There are forty accounts from american Indians of the Noah flood before the Europeans arrived in America, the Navjo Indians, for example.
"similar" is a vague term. There certainly are similar stories from most cultures which lived around the black sea at the end of the last ice age. In particular, one of those cultures fled to Persia, who conqured the Jews, who then copied the story (the flood of Gilgamesh) into their own religion.

700 years before Christ, there are accounts of pilgrims climbing up to scrape tar off the vessel found on Mount Ararat in eastern Turkey to make good luck relics.
Please provide some support for this and the many other claims you make here.

Many scientists agree the numbers of species in those days would be between 1.544 and 2,392. There would have to be hundreds of rooms to accommadate that many species. Some of those animals in the cold climate and closed quarters would have gone into a hibernation state, making it easier for a small crew {family} to acre for them.
Not even close. There are between 1,500,000 and 1,800,000 named sepcies. At bare minimum, there are 2,000,000, and top estimates range up to 50,000,000.

http://hypertextbook.com/facts/2003/FelixNisimov.shtml
http://ethomas.web.wesleyan.edu/ees123/species.htm
http://www.enviroliteracy.org/article.php/58.html

By and large though, you are simply making entirely unsubstantiated claims.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
Terrywoodenpic said:
Myths can hold the entire world, with room to spare.

^ This is true. Maybe the story of the Ark is just a way to explain a flood that happened. To believe that one man actually built an ark large enough to fill all the species and yet, no boat was ever found... well, just doesnt match up. Also, 40 days and 40 nights... the number 40 is used a lot in the bible and for some reason is very signifigant to Jewish faith (moses and his 40 year journeys). Also, wouldn't the animals, i dont know, kind of killed eachother within 40 days?

"I have a tendency to not believe in fairy tales" ~ A friend
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
I for one, absolutely believe the Bible story that Noah built the ark and God flooded the entire world, yes indeedy. No doubt whatsoever here.
 
A

A. Leaf

Guest
I doubt Noah could of been an amatuer boat builder, and by the time he finished building the ark i'd say there would'nt of been many trees left anyway, as JerryL has mentioned, a min of 2,000,0000 species, then you have the stores dept of the Ark, food, bedding, freshwater. Titanic was large I'd say Noak should of named the Ark the 'Colossic'
 

greatcalgarian

Well-Known Member
Freelancer7 said:
I doubt Noah could of been an amatuer boat builder, and by the time he finished building the ark i'd say there would'nt of been many trees left anyway, as JerryL has mentioned, a min of 2,000,0000 species, then you have the stores dept of the Ark, food, bedding, freshwater. Titanic was large I'd say Noak should of named the Ark the 'Colossic'
Ya, Noah has no electric saw, air gun etc. Everything has to be done by hand. Try to imagine how many trees he has to fell, saw into the right size, and nailed together. May be his great grand father started the project, and he completed the final touch up.
 

LongGe123

Active Member
BUt really it just shows one of the biggest flaws in putting too much meaning into these stories from the Bible. The Bible is an account thousands of years old, and therefore from a time when knowledge of wildlife and species was extremely limited. The writers would only think of the larger very visible and recognisable animals when picturing this concept of an "ark". You know the ones I mean; lions, giraffes, big birds, dogs and fat hamsters. They're not going to think of the short spined red eyed tree frog from the depths of the Amazon.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
Hmm. So many problems with the story of Noah and the ark, where to start. Oh, right, Rob posted a link to where this was all debunked months ago. But in short order here are the major areas where this story falls drastically short of reality.

1. There is not enough water on or around the earth to flood the entire planet.
2. If you somehow came up with enough water to flood the entire planet, the air pressure would suffocate any air breathing creature.
3. Absolutely no evidence for a worldwide flood in the geological record.
4. Impossible to acquire 2 million breeding pairs of animals in a human lifespan.
5. Impossible to build a wooden boat big enough to even get a small portion of those breeding pairs on board.
6. Impossible to have the numbers and genetic diversity of humans we see today in the 4000 years since the "biblical flood".

I really would have thought anyone who could turn on a computer and navigate to this website would have a firm grasp of why a worldwide flood did not and could not happen.

B.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
Ah, but through God, all things are possible. Did the Ark exist? Don't know. Is it just a story? could be. But if pyramids had all been destroyed, with little or no evidence of them, most would not believe they could have existed. No one knows to this day how the heck they could have been built with such perfection.
 

Evenstar

The Wicked Christian
Whether its true or not, its a lovely story of the Bible.
I also would like to know where it says 2,000,000 animals were aboard? I also doubt the figure of 2,000,000 animals existed back then.​
Lets look at Stonehenge, many stories of how those stones were placed there, but nobody really knows. They tryed to reconstruct how they moved the stones, and it ended up in the bottom of the river. We just dont know how people did the things they did.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
I just got through watching an episode of "This Old Ark", and it amazes me that y'all just don't get it.

First off... God (by definition) is a pretty powerful guy. He can create matter out of nothing (see The Big Bang) and then evaporate it. Since he created all of the laws of physics, he can suspend them at his will.

1) So with that out of the way, I agree: There is not enough water on the earth to create the flood. There didn't have to be. As this was a supernatural event (not caused by nature) the water simply appeared (or didn't).

2) The increase of gravity due to the extra mass of water would most likely increase the density of the air in the atmosphere thereby ensuring our ability to breathe. Barring that, God, being God, would have provided for the needs of these humans and their cargo.

3) Until such time as you inspect ALL of the "geologic record" you might possibly make this claim with a straight face. As it is, we have no idea what to look for in an event that lasted only 80 days. Talk about finding a needle in a haystack.

4), 5) AND 6) I love the use of the word "impossible". What is impossible for you to conceive or achieve is a piece of cake for God. What about supernatural did you not understand? Surely a God who created the entire universe by speaking it into existence (again, see the Big Bang), can accomplish gathering all of the species together, enable them to fit in a dinghy (much less an ark), and see to it that there is a bunch of diversity in the human make up. Thank God that is able to do ANYTHING he wants to do.

7) (Yes, you forgot #7) The actual scope of this flood is lost to us. While it appeared to the authors that the entire world was immersed, there are clues within the text that this may not be so. God has never characterized the Bible to be perfect: only inspired. He has taken the liberty to preserve the early writings of his children, much as my mother did with mine. I always smile at my obvious immaturity in my earlier writings, and I am sure I will snicker about this post if I read it five years (or more) hence. We are reading about THEIR reality in a universe that they are trying to make sense of. But instead of smiling at their immaturity we make a case against God with it. Oh well!
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
Do you then believe that God 'interferes' (wrong word, but I can't think of the right one).in our day to day lives ? - If he did so at that period in time, what is stopping him from doing so now ?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
michel said:
Do you then believe that God 'interferes' (wrong word, but I can't think of the right one).in our day to day lives ? - If he did so at that period in time, what is stopping him from doing so now ?
michel, excellent question! I have pondered that myself! He was such a 'hands on' God in the OT. Why not now?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
jgallandt said:
michel, excellent question! I have pondered that myself! He was such a 'hands on' God in the OT. Why not now?
And if not now, why not ?
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
NetDoc, you make some very excellent points. The problem being is with people that don't believe in God, do not believe in his miracles. The ark could very well be true. Noah did live for over 900 years I believe. Plenty of time to build an ark. And like I stated earlier, through God, all things are possible.
 
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