The archaeological and historical evidence of the early history of the Jews before 600 BCE.

[shunyadragon]

Based on the archaeological, and historical evidence the following will be proposed in this Thread.

(1) There are no records written by Hebrews before 800-600 BCE. In fact the only records known are from other Kingdoms, like Egypt and Kingdoms that defeated Hebrews in battle.
(2) Before 1000 BCE the Hebrews were various pastoral Canaanite tribes in the Hills of Judah in the North. No known written language or written records from Independent sources,
(3) The Canaanites dominated the region and the City of Jerusalem up to ~1550 BCE
(4) Egypt conquered most of the Levant and colonized the region between ~1550 - 1000 BCE. The Amarna letters, archaeology and other Egyptian records document this. During this time the Levant was contested between the Egyptians and the Hittites.
(5)The Period of upheaval in the late Bronze Age collapse Egypt's hold on the Levant began to deteriorate in ~1100 BCE, by ~1000 BCE
(6) There is a lack of independent records to determine who occupied Jerusalem in the Period o Upheaval.
(7) The Hebrews began to increase in fluence and prosperity, in the region as a loose Confederation as the Egyptians retreated from the Levant. Invasions by the Sea people? and Phoenicians controlled the costal regions. The Philistines dominated the Southern Levant.
(8) A line of Kings including David likely existed between 1200 BCE and 800 BCE and on, but there is no evidence to support a United Monarchy independent of the Bible, before 900-800 BCE..

 

[dybmh]

There are no records written by Hebrews before 800-600 BCE.

You've omitted, again, the inscriptions at Temple Tel Arad.

1000BCE. A temple of that size and infrastructure does not magically poof into existence overnight.

That means Jews were in the region prior to 1000BCE. This syncs up nicely with the dates of the Exodus as written in the Torah.

You haven't listened in the past. You're still ignoring the same archeological evidence that was presented, at least once, I think twice.

I'll not be responding further to this thread. There is evidence you are ignoring. I suppose it's status quo.

 

[Estro Felino]

A bit of Aristotelian logic is a necessary, sometimes.
If there was nothing, no kingdom, no state beyond the mountain of Lebanon, the Phoenicians would have conquered it all.
They couldn't do that, because there already was a large kingdom, much larger than Phoenicia.
What pushed Tyrians to sail to Africa and found Carthage in 814 BCE, and other colonies in Sardinia and in Sicily?

Who inhabited that land?

 

[dybmh]

Before 1000 BCE the Hebrews were various pastoral Canaanite tribes in the Hills of Judah in the North. No known written language or written records from Independent sources

False.

No written records YOU know of.

If this is true, the Canaanites were keeping the Torah. That's what the archeological evidence suggests.

 

[shunyadragon]

The first evidence I would like to present are the Amarna letters, which are often terribly misrepresented by fundamentalist Christians. What do the Amarna letters actually tell us?

The Amarna Letters | Essay | The Metropolitan Museum of Art | Heilbrunn Timeline of Art History

Since Egypt is outside the area where cuneiform writing developed, the Amarna Letters testify to the use of the Mesopotamian script and the Akkadian language across the eastern Mediterranean during this period.

www.metmuseum.org

Letters comprise the majority of the Amarna tablets and have been extensively studied in the modern period by scholars interested in ancient history and international relations. Two types of letters can be distinguished. The first (more common) type comprises letters written from rulers of cities and small kingdoms in the Levant—an area controlled by Egypt in the New Kingdom period—that were vassals of the Egyptian king. These rulers write deferentially to the king (identifying him as “the Sun, my lord,” and referring to themselves as “your servant”) and relate squabbles with other Levantine rulers, list concerns with Egyptian administration, or discuss trade and tribute. One letter in the Museum’s collection from Abi-milku, ruler of the coastal city of Tyre, shows how these Levantine kings depicted themselves as dependent upon their Egyptian overlord (24.2.12). In addition to the many letters sent by Abi-milku of Tyre, the Amarna tablets include letters from the rulers of many Levantine cities from Ugarit in the north to Gaza in the south.

The second (less common) type comprises letters from rulers who were powerful kings in their own right and controlled large territories such as Babylonia, Assyria, Mitanni, and Hatti. In both tone and content, these letters differ considerably from those of the Levantine rulers. These rulers use terms of equality, referring to the Egyptian king as a “brother,” and discuss the mutual exchange of gifts, including raw materials such as gold from Egypt and lapis lazuli from modern Afghanistan (26.7.21) and expertly produced luxury objects ranging in size from small jewelry items to chariots (27.6.1), as well as more direct exchanges, such as royal marriages. While most of the so-called great kings of the Amarna Letters could trace contact with Egypt back to their forefathers, the other letter in the Museum’s collection unusually claims to mark the beginning of correspondence between the king of Assyria and the king of Egypt (24.2.11). Here, Ashur-uballit I indicates that his message is accompanied by gifts of a chariot, two horses, and a carved precious lapis lazuli stone, and requests that his messenger be allowed to visit the king and his country.

 

[shunyadragon]

False.

True, if you can present evidence to the contrary please do,

No written records YOU know of.

No written records that anyone knows, arguing from ignorance gets you nothing. ALL the cultures surrounding the Hebrews wrote some records in stone, clay tablets and papyrus. We do not have one Hebrew scrape,

If this is true, the Canaanites were keeping the Torah. That's what the archeological evidence suggests.

Suggests?!?!? There is no archaeological evidence of this. Before 800-600 BCE the Hebrews were a minor Canaanite tribe worshiping Canaanite Gods with no written records.

Present independent evidence to the contrary.

 

[shunyadragon]

A bit of Aristotelian logic is a necessary, sometimes.

Careful logic is circular trap to justify what you believe based on assumption you believe,

If there was nothing, no kingdom, no state beyond the mountain of Lebanon, the Phoenicians would have conquered it all.
They couldn't do that, because there already was a large kingdom, much larger than Phoenicia.
What pushed Tyrians to sail to Africa and found Carthage in 814 BCE, and other colonies in Sardinia and in Sicily?

Who inhabited that land?

This is terribly hypothetic "arguing from ignorance" without any basis in evidence. The Hebrews were not nothing. There is specific evidence of their pastoral life where their villages were and their life and Canaanite religion and culture. Many tribal cultures of the world lacked writing in the Bronze Age like Mongolians and Celts Writing evolved first in cultures with extensive trade relations like Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites, and Egyptians. When the Hebrew culture evolved in organization and trade they developed writing evolved from Canaanite and Phoenician. the dominant trading culture of the Levant.

 

[Estro Felino]

This is terribly hypothetic "arguing from ignorance" without any basis in evidence. The Hebrews were not nothing. There is specific evidence of their pastoral life where their villages were and their life and Canaanite religion and culture. Many tribal cultures of the world lacked writing in the Bronze Age like Mongolians and Celts Writing evolved first in cultures with extensive trade relations like Sumerians, Babylonians, Canaanites, and Egyptians. When the Hebrew culture evolved in organization and trade they developed writing evolved from Canaanite and Phoenician. the dominant trading culture of the Levant.

I did say there was a much larger kingdom, and the kingdom was inhabited by Jews, who spoke a similar language, but they developed a completely different alphabet, so they were two distinct peoples, who sometimes were in good terms, sometimes not.

 

[shunyadragon]

Do I speak Arabic, by chance?

Relevance?!?!!?

I did say there was a much larger kingdom, and the kingdom was inhabited by Jews, who spoke a similar language, but they developed a completely different alphabet, so they were two distinct peoples, who sometimes were in good terms, sometimes not.

There is no evidence they were a much larger kingdom like those that surrounded and controlled the Levant and recorded defeating the Hebrews twice in wars. There is evidence that the Hebrews increased in government, organization and spread across the Levant to form a a unified kingdom with a written language.

Not a large organized kingdom, but there is abundant evidence of pastoral tribes and villages and some fortifications in Northern and Southern regions of the Levant.

 

[shunyadragon]

There were many tribes at play in the Levant in the turf war,

Who were the Apiru? Some apologetic scholars consider them Hebrews, but they were very different and ethnically diverse, The Hebrews were far more ethnically defined and regionally specific as Canaanite tribes,

ʿApiru - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

ʿApiru (Ugaritic: , romanized: ʿPRM, Ancient Egyptian: , romanized: ꜥprw), also known in the Akkadian version Ḫabiru (sometimes written Habiru, Ḫapiru or Hapiru; Akkadian: , ḫa-bi-ru or *ʿaperu) is a term used in 2nd-millennium BCE texts throughout the Fertile Crescent for a social status of people who were variously described as rebels, outlaws, raiders, mercenaries, bowmen, servants, slaves, and laborers.[1][2][3][4][5][6]

The term was first discovered in its Akkadian version "ḫa-bi-ru" or "ḫa-pi-ru". Due to later findings in Ugaritic and Egyptian which used the consonants ʿ, p and r, and in light of the well-established sound change from Northwest Semitic ʿ to Akkadian ḫ,[8] the root of this term is proven to be ʿ-p-r.[9][10][6][11][12] This root means "dust, dirt", and links to the characterization of the ʿApiru as nomads, mercenaries, people who are not part of the cultural society.[6][11] The morphological pattern of the word is qatilu,[10] which point to a status, condition.[6]

Hapiru, Habiru, and Apiru​

In the time of Rim-Sin I (1822 BCE to 1763 BCE), the Sumerians knew a group of Aramaean nomads living in southern Mesopotamia as SA.GAZ, which meant "trespassers".[14] The later Akkadians inherited the term, which was rendered as the calque Habiru, properly ʿApiru. The term occurs in hundreds of 2nd millennium BCE documents covering a 600-year period from the 18th to the 12th centuries BCE and found at sites ranging from Egypt, Canaan and Syria, to Nuzi (near Kirkuk in northern Iraq) and Anatolia (Turkey).[15][16]

Not all Habiru were brigands:[17] in the 18th century BCE a north Syrian king named Irkabtum (c. 1740 BCE) "made peace with [the warlord] Shemuba and his Habiru,"[18] while the ʿApiru, Idrimi of Alalakh, was the son of a deposed king, and formed a band of ʿApiru to make himself king of Alalakh.[19] What Idrimi shared with the other ʿApiru was membership of an inferior social class of outlaws, mercenaries, and slaves leading a marginal and sometimes lawless existence on the fringes of settled society.[20] ʿApiru had no common ethnic affiliations and no common language, their personal names being most frequently West Semitic, but also East Semitic, Hurrian or Indo-European.[20][21]

Areas of reported Habiru activity during the Late Bronze IIA period (based on the Amarna letters corpus)
In the Amarna letters from the 14th century BCE, the petty kings of Canaan describe them sometimes as outlaws, sometimes as mercenaries, sometimes as day-labourers and servants.[3] Usually they are socially marginal, but Rib-Hadda of Byblos calls Abdi-Ashirta of Amurru (modern Lebanon) and his son ʿApiru, with the implication that they have rebelled against their common overlord, the Pharaoh.[3] In "The Conquest of Joppa" (modern Jaffa), an Egyptian work of historical fiction from around 1440 BCE, they appear as brigands, and General Djehuty asks at one point that his horses be taken inside the city lest they be stolen by a passing ʿApir.[23]

Habiru and the biblical Hebrews​

Since the discovery of the 2nd millennium BCE inscriptions mentioning the Habiru, there have been many theories linking these to the Hebrews of the Bible.[14] Most of these theories were based on the supposed etymological link and were widely denied basing on the Egyptian sources and later following the Ugaritic and Hittite discoveries.[6][11][12] There are two main barriers, linguistic and group identity.
Most scholars, Anson Rainey and R. Steven Notley among them, deny any linguistic relationship between Abiru and Hebrew,[24][25] or at most admit only "a bare possibility."[26] But this view remains short of academic consensus. Philologically, argued Moshe Greenberg, Apiru and Hebrew though not transparently related are not irreconcilable.[27][28] Nadav Na’aman had no doubt that the term “Hebrew” was derived from “Habiru.”[29] The Christian priestly scholars, such as Manfred Weippert, Henry Cazelles and Oswald Loretz, are the least ready to give up the relation between Apiru and Hebrew. For them the linguistic equation between Apiru and Hebrew is easy and comfortable.[30][31][32] Loretz, however, admits the etymological possibility despite denying all equations between Apiru and Hebrew.[33]

Regarding the identity, the academic consensus is well established that Apiru and Hebrews represent two different groups. The Biblical Hebrews are an ethnic group while Apiru were a much wider multi-ethnic group distinguished by social status. The morphological pattern of the word ʿApiru is, as mentioned above, qatilu, which point a status, as opposed to the morphological pattern of the ethnonym עִבְרִי (Hebrew) which is based on nisba (like מִצְרִי – Egyptian).[6] Moreover, Meredith Kline finds that Apiru were not even Semitic peoples

 

[shunyadragon]

You've omitted, again, the inscriptions at Temple Tel Arad.

1000BCE. A temple of that size and infrastructure does not magically poof into existence overnight.

You are missing the specifics of my Claim. No text of the Pentateuch before600 BCE. IT is well understood that Hebrew evolved from Canaanite/Phoenician and Proto-Hebrew existed before Hebrew.

Not neglected at all, because they were not in Hebrew, and not scripture. They were in what is called Paleo-Hebrew from Phoenician that later evolved into Hebrew.

That means Jews were in the region prior to 1000BCE. This syncs up nicely with the dates of the Exodus as written in the Torah.

There is no doubt that the Jews in the region even much earlier.

Not syncs at all since there is absolutely no scripture concerning the Pentateuch before 800-600 BCE

You haven't listened in the past. You're still ignoring the same archeological evidence that was presented, at least once, I think twice.

I'll not be responding further to this thread. There is evidence you are ignoring. I suppose it's status quo.

I do not ignore any academic texts. I cite specific academic texts to support my argument

 

[shunyadragon]

A very important issue is here the age and evolution of the Hebrew language and scripture.

It is well know that Hebrew writing evolve from Canaanite/Phoenician alphabet, and what is called Proto-Hebrew found in the 10th century BCE is indeed Phoenician alphabet, All the examples in stone and pottery since show the natural evolution of the Hebrew language beginning in the 11th and 10th century BCE.

There are several examples of Paleo-Hebrew written in stone beginning in the 10th century BCE. The following is the earliest example. After the 6th century BCE there are many inscriptions and uses of the evolved Hebrew language including grave stones,

Source: Paleo-Hebrew alphabet - Wikipedia.


The earliest known inscription in the Paleo-Hebrew script is the Zayit Stone discovered on a wall at Tel Zayit, in the Beth Guvrin Valley in the lowlands of ancient Judea in 2005, about 50 km (31 mi) southwest of Jerusalem

Like the Phoenician alphabet, it is a slight regional variant and an immediate continuation of the Proto-Canaanite script, which was used throughout Canaan in the Late Bronze Age.[11]Phoenician, Hebrew, and all of their sister Canaanite languages were largely indistinguishable dialects before that time.[12][13] The Paleo-Hebrew script is an abjad of 22 consonantal letters, exactly as the other Canaanite scripts from the period.

The oldest inscriptions identifiable as Biblical Hebrew have long been limited to the 8th century BCE. In 2008, however, a potsherd (ostracon) bearing an inscription was excavated at Khirbet Qeiyafa which has since been interpreted as representing a recognizably Hebrew inscription dated to as early as the 10th century BCE. The argument identifying the text as Hebrew relies on the use of vocabulary.[14]

From the 8th century onward, Hebrew epigraphy becomes more common, showing the gradual spread of literacy among the people of the Kingdom of Israel and the Kingdom of Judah; the oldest portions of the Hebrew Bible, although transmitted via the recension of the Second Temple period, are also dated to the 8th century BCE.

Even the engraved inscriptions from the 8th century exhibit elements of the cursive style, such as the shading, which is a natural feature of pen-and-ink writing. Examples of such inscriptions include the Siloam inscription,[17] numerous tomb inscriptions from Jerusalem,[18][19] the Ketef Hinnom scrolls, a fragmentary Hebrew inscription on an ivory which was taken as war spoils (probably from Samaria) to Nimrud, the Arad ostraca dating to the 6th-century BCE, the hundreds of 8th to 6th-century Hebrew seals from various sites, and the Paleo-Hebrew Leviticus scroll discovered near Tel Qumran. The most developed cursive script is found on the 18 Lachish ostraca,[20] letters sent by an officer to the governor of Lachish just before the destruction of the First Temple in 586 BCE. A slightly earlier (circa 620 BCE) but similar script is found on an ostracon excavated at Mesad Hashavyahu, containing a petition for redress of grievances (an appeal by a field worker to the fortress's governor regarding the confiscation of his cloak, which the writer considers to have been unjust).[21][22]

© Copyright Original Source

 

[shunyadragon]

False.

No written records YOU know of.

If this is true, the Canaanites were keeping the Torah. That's what the archeological evidence suggests.

See post #12 for a detailed discussion of the evolution of the Hebrew written language.

 

[shunyadragon]

You've omitted, again, the inscriptions at Temple Tel Arad.

1000BCE. A temple of that size and infrastructure does not magically poof into existence overnight.

That means Jews were in the region prior to 1000BCE. This syncs up nicely with the dates of the Exodus as written in the Torah.

You haven't listened in the past. You're still ignoring the same archeological evidence that was presented, at least once, I think twice.

I'll not be responding further to this thread. There is evidence you are ignoring. I suppose it's status quo.

You need to respond to post #12

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

There are no records written by Hebrews before 800-600 BCE.

You know, @shunyadragon, save for the fact you seem to have this deep need to repeat yourself over and over again, I would have much more respect for you and your mantra if you would simply consider a modestt editorial modification, i.e.:

There are no [known] records written by Hebrews before 800-600 BCE.​

It benefits from being both true and intellectually honest. Just think about it.

Before 1000 BCE the Hebrews were various pastoral Canaanite tribes in the Hills of Judah in the North. No known written language or written records from Independent sources,

What precisely are you claiming?

• ... that all "Hebrews" were [members of] "pastoral Canaanite tribes" exclusive colocated "in the Hills of Judah in the North"?
• ... that "A line of Kings including David likely existed between 1200 BCE and 800 BCE," thereby suggesting that beit David was a pastoral kingdom, with no known written language?

One last question: To when would you date Psalms 34 and 145?

Thanks.

 

[Sargonski]

Based on the archaeological, and historical evidence the following will be proposed in this Thread.

(1) There are no records written by Hebrews before 800-600 BCE. In fact the only records known are from other Kingdoms, like Egypt and Kingdoms that defeated Hebrews in battle.
(2) Before 1000 BCE the Hebrews were various pastoral Canaanite tribes in the Hills of Judah in the North. No known written language or written records from Independent sources,
(3) The Canaanites dominated the region and the City of Jerusalem up to ~1550 BCE
(4) Egypt conquered most of the Levant and colonized the region between ~1550 - 1000 BCE. The Amarna letters, archaeology and other Egyptian records document this. During this time the Levant was contested between the Egyptians and the Hittites.
(5)The Period of upheaval in the late Bronze Age collapse Egypt's hold on the Levant began to deteriorate in ~1100 BCE, by ~1000 BCE
(6) There is a lack of independent records to determine who occupied Jerusalem in the Period o Upheaval.
(7) The Hebrews began to increase in fluence and prosperity, in the region as a loose Confederation as the Egyptians retreated from the Levant. Invasions by the Sea people? and Phoenicians controlled the costal regions. The Philistines dominated the Southern Levant.
(8) A line of Kings including David likely existed between 1200 BCE and 800 BCE and on, but there is no evidence to support a United Monarchy independent of the Bible, before 900-800 BCE..

1) We have a fair bit from those other Kingdoms giving evidence of the early history prior to 600 .. We have stuff from the Assyrians detailing their conquest of the Northern Kingdom.. but from the Israelites themselves ? there are times in the OT when the writing will all of a sudden become archaic .. the song of deborah apparently being one example .. some of the Psalms and wisdom literature are thought to date back ~ 900 BC.. Scant .. but something more than nothing

Also you have traditions .. which were maintained in the Northern Kingdom.. basically mapping parts of the BAAL Cycle onto YHWH in the songs they would sing in Temple. ... so even if the Psalm was written in 700 BC .. the tradition being maintained is much much older .. and very Canaanite .. such that .. if you walk down the street to the Next Temple .. that of a different Son of God .. say Nebo -- they will have the same Song .. perhaps different music but same lyrics .. except Nebo is substituted for the name of God instead of YHWH ..

(3) Canaanites held the city of Jerusalem in 1000 BC .. a branch known as Jebusites at the time when David shows up. ..most of the peoples in the Region are "Canaanites" of one sort or another. The Canaanite Priest King of Jerusalem at the time of Abe ~ 1800 BC is named Melchi-Zedek Zedek is the Patron God of Jerusalem Kings would often incorporate the name of the Patron God into their own name .. throughout mesopotamia.. 800 years later .. when David takes Jerusalem the Kings name is Adoni-Zedek "My God is Zedek" . .. the priesthood maintained.

 

[shunyadragon]

You know, @shunyadragon, save for the fact you seem to have this deep need to repeat yourself over and over again, I would have much more respect for you and your mantra if you would simply consider a modestt editorial modification, i.e.:

There are no [known] records written by Hebrews before 800-600 BCE.​

It benefits from being both true and intellectually honest. Just think about it.



What precisely are you claiming?

• ... that all "Hebrews" were [members of] "pastoral Canaanite tribes" exclusive colocated "in the Hills of Judah in the North"?

Sorry typo should by in the Hills of Judah and in the North.

• ... that "A line of Kings including David likely existed between 1200 BCE and 800 BCE," thereby suggesting that be it David was a pastoral kingdom, with no known written language?

Being a pastoral Kingdom without a written language is not unusual. The Mongols lacked a written language The Celts alo lacked a written language even they had a sophisticated culture and empire. If the Hebrews had a written language it would be Phoenician/Canaanite, but before that 11th/10th centuries they apparently did not use. Early in their history it is known that the Mongols did not have a written language, but over time later developed a written language and adapted the language of the region Chinese

One last question: To when would you date Psalms 34 and 145?

I will not conclude specifically, but the Book of Psalms is an evolved compilation likely of different sources some on Canaanite style and themes,

https://academic.oup.com/edited-volume/35006/chapter-abstract/298739259?redirectedFrom=fulltext

3 Canaanite Backgrounds to the Psalms​

01 July 2014

Abstract​

The Canaanite backgrounds of the Psalms emerged as an important topic of biblical research after the 1930s following the discovery of texts at the site of Late Bronze Age Ugarit (modern Ras Shamra) in Syria. Scholars have identified many similarities between the Ugaritic texts and the Hebrew Bible, including the Psalms, leading to speculation that these corpora belonged to the same larger cultural milieu. As a result, the Bible’s emphasis on the foreignness of the Canaanites and other peoples, such as the Amorites and the Hittites, appears to be a polemic against Israelites who fail to conform to monotheistic worship of Yahweh, rather than against a foreign culture or society. This article examines the Psalms’ Canaanite backgrounds as represented mainly by the Ugaritic texts, first by discussing the relationship between Ugarit and Canaan. It then looks at poetic style, various literary genres or types, and type-scenes. It also considers the hymnic motif of praising the divine name for the Ugaritic texts and the Psalter, with reference to Psalm 29 which shows a strong “Canaanite background”.

Being a pastoral Kingdom without a written language is not unusual. The Mongols lacked a written language The Celts alo lacked a written language even they had a sophisticated culture and empire. If the Hebrews had a written language it would be Phoenician/Canaanite, but before that 11th/10th centuries they apparently did not use it much if at all. It is possible the priests were likely literate in other languages

 

[shunyadragon]

1) We have a fair bit from those other Kingdoms giving evidence of the early history prior to 600 .. We have stuff from the Assyrians detailing their conquest of the Northern Kingdom.. but from the Israelites themselves ? there are times in the OT when the writing will all of a sudden become archaic .. the song of deborah apparently being one example .. some of the Psalms and wisdom literature are thought to date back ~ 900 BC.. Scant .. but something more than nothing

Yes the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom is well documented. The questions involve the writing and documentation of the history of Israel before 800-600 BCE.

As described the Hebrew language evolved from Phoenician/Canaanite and not nothing.

Writing and speaking archaic is nothing new in traditional beliefs. It is common in Christianity and Judaism ceremonies and ritual today. Archaic Hebrew would closer to Canaanite.

Are thought to back to ~900 BCE? Most likely older The roots of the Psalms are likely include Canaanite writings. See post #17

Also you have traditions .. which were maintained in the Northern Kingdom.. basically mapping parts of the BAAL Cycle onto YHWH in the songs they would sing in Temple. ... so even if the Psalm was written in 700 BC .. the tradition being maintained is much much older .. and very Canaanite .. such that .. if you walk down the street to the Next Temple .. that of a different Son of God .. say Nebo -- they will have the same Song .. perhaps different music but same lyrics .. except Nebo is substituted for the name of God instead of YHWH ..

Older traditions of the Hebrews are rooted in Canaanite. The Hebrews are a Canaanite tribe with Canaanite Gods including YHWH. The Psalms are compilation from different sources some older Canaanite.

(3) Canaanites held the city of Jerusalem in 1000 BC

From ~1550 to 1000 BCE Jerusalem was occupied by Egypt as well as most of Canaan colonized. See post on the Amarna letters.

.. a branch known as Jebusites at the time when David shows up. ..most of the peoples in the Region are "Canaanites" of one sort or another. The Canaanite Priest King of Jerusalem at the time of Abe ~ 1800 BC is named Melchi-Zedek Zedek is the Patron God of Jerusalem Kings would often incorporate the name of the Patron God into their own name .. throughout mesopotamia.. 800 years later .. when David takes Jerusalem the Kings name is Adoni-Zedek "My God is Zedek" . .. the priesthood maintained.

Yes, Jerusalem was a Canaanite city prior to ~1550 BCE. Egypt from ~1550 to ~1000 BCE.

 

[Sargonski]

Yes the Assyrian conquest of the Northern Kingdom is well documented. The questions involve the writing and documentation of the history of Israel before 800-600 BCE.

As described the Hebrew language evolved from Phoenician/Canaanite and not nothing.

Writing and speaking archaic is nothing new in traditional beliefs. It is common in Christianity and Judaism ceremonies and ritual today. Archaic Hebrew would closer to Canaanite.

Are thought to back to ~900 BCE? Most likely older The roots of the Psalms are likely include Canaanite writings. See post #17

Older traditions of the Hebrews are rooted in Canaanite. The Hebrews are a Canaanite tribe with Canaanite Gods including YHWH. The Psalms are compilation from different sources some older Canaanite.



From ~1550 to 1000 BCE Jerusalem was occupied by Egypt as well as most of Canaan colonized. See post on the Amarna letters.


Yes, Jerusalem was a Canaanite city prior to ~1550 BCE. Egypt from ~1550 to ~1000 BCE.

Yes .. I am well familiar with mesopotamian history 3000 BC to 0. In particular the levant .. the Zedek fellow mentioned a Phonecian God .. Patron God of Jerusalem .. .. my nick the name of the uniter of the city states in mesopotamia into the worlds first empire .. Balkanized ..

Israelites are Canaanites .. the Hebrew Language a Canaanite Dialect .. and although the "Hebrews" have Canaanite Gods .. we don't see YHWH among the Canaanite Gods .. and he does not come along until the Hebrews turn into Israelites ... but 100% agree that the Psalms - those repeating the Ba-al cycle motifs .. the battle with the Sea Monster and such go back much further than 900 BC .. the Ugarit stuff 13-1400BC .. Old ..

And according to the Bible Jerusalem was Canaanite ~1800 BC ---

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

One last question: To when would you date Psalms 34 and 145?

I will not conclude specifically, but the Book of Psalms is an evolved compilation likely of different sources some on Canaanite style and themes,

You will not "conclude specifically"?

What you will do, however, is instructive, not to mention intellectually disingenuous. You scan for a reference that coheres with your mantra and find (glory be) the abstract to Smith's Canaanite Backgrounds to Psalms, which you proceed to quote in full. Good for you! (FWIW, I rather like Smith.)

What I find noteworthy, however, is not your exercise in selection bias, but

• that you limit your quote to the readily accessible abstract, suggesting that you have yet to actually read the article, and
• that you reference only the abstract of chapter 3, while silently passing over (a) chapter 2: Mesopotamian Parallels to the Psalms, and (b) chapter 4: Egyptian Backgrounds to the Psalms.

So, what are we left with? The amazing realization that a curated collection, presumably aimed at an audience, reflects the worldview and genres common to that audience, and to a landmass stretching from Egypt to Syria and beyond. Just brilliant.

And then, as if to add comic relief to this reveal, you graciously offer ...

If the Hebrews had a written language it would be Phoenician/Canaanite, but before that 11th/10th centuries they apparently did not use it much if at all. It is possible the priests were likely literate in other languages​

I just love your "it is possible the priests were likely," if only because it posits a priestly class sustained by a nomadic kingdom while being seemingly oblivious to the anything approaching a scribal class, despite the fact that such a class was ubiquitous throughout the Ancient Near East. Oh, well ... you would benefit from reading Podany's Weavers, Scribes and Kings.

But what's the point? Let's assume that your mantra is absolute truth, i.e., that there was no written Hebrew language before Egypt's decline. Therefore?