1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The animal sacrifices.

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by calm, Sep 28, 2019.

  1. calm

    calm Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2019
    Messages:
    462
    Ratings:
    +140
    Religion:
    Natsari
    It is probably the biggest Biblical topic that has occupied me for a long time. It is about animal sacrifices.
    In the Torah God asked for animal sacrifices. (Leviticus 4+5) These sacrifices were there to cleanse oneself of the sins.
    So you realize how important animal sacrifices were, because without them there would have been no salvation for the Hebrews.
    But now it is the case that God says in some books of the prophets that he never asked for animal sacrifices and that these were an abomination to him.
    _____
    Jeremiah 7:21-23
    Thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: “Add your burnt offerings to your sacrifices, and eat the flesh.
    22 For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices.

    Psalm 51:16
    For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it; you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
    17 The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit; a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise.

    Isaiah 66:3
    He who slaughters an ox is like one who kills a man; he who sacrifices a lamb, like one who breaks a dog’s neck; he who presents a grain offering, like one who offers pig’s blood; he who makes a memorial offering of frankincense, like one who blesses an idol. These have chosen their own ways, and their soul delights in their abominations.

    Hosea 6:6
    For I desire steadfast love and not sacrifice, the knowledge of God rather than burnt offerings.

    Micah 6:6
    With what shall I come before the Lord and bow down before the exalted God? Shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves a year old?
    7 Will the Lord be pleased with thousands of rams, with ten thousand rivers of olive oil? Shall I offer my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?
    He has shown you, O mortal, what is good. And what does the Lord require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God.
    _____

    Could it be that many things in the Torah are not to be understood literally? That, for example, an animal sacrifice symbolizes a "humiliation"?
    Perhaps someone of you knows the Barnabas letter, in this letter the author claims that many Hebrews erroneously understand many passages in the Torah literally instead of symbolically.
    As an example also the food laws:
    _____
    Barnabas 10:1
    But forasmuch as Moses said; Ye shall not eat seine nor eagle nor
    falcon nor crow nor any fish which hath no scale upon it
    , he
    received in his understanding three ordinances.

    Barnabas 10:2
    Yea and further He saith unto them in Deuteronomy; And I will lay
    as a covenant upon this people My ordinances.
    So then it is not a
    commandment of God that they should not bite with their teeth, but
    Moses spake it in spirit.

    Barnabas 10:3
    Accordingly he mentioned the swine with this intent. Thou shalt not
    cleave, saith he, to such men who are like unto swine; that is, when
    they are in luxury they forget the Lord, but when they are in want
    they recognize the Lord, just as the swine when it eateth knoweth not
    his lord, but when it is hungry it crieth out, and when it has
    received food again it is silent.

    Barnabas 10:4
    Neither shalt thou eat eagle nor falcon nor kite nor crow. Thou
    shalt not, He saith, cleave unto, or be likened to, such men who now
    not how to provide food for themselves by toil and sweat, but in
    their lawlessness seize what belongeth to others, and as if they were
    walking in guilelessness watch and search about for some one to rob
    in their rapacity, just as these birds alone do not provide food for
    themselves, but sit idle and seek how they may eat the meat that
    belongeth to others, being pestilent in their evil-doings.


    Barnabas 10:5
    And thou shalt not eat, saith He, lamprey nor polypus nor cuttle
    fish
    . Thou shalt not, He meaneth, become like unto such men, who
    are desperately wicked, and are already condemned to death, just as
    these fishes alone are accursed and swim in the depths, not swimming
    on the surface like the rest, but dwell on the ground beneath the
    deep sea.
    _____
    What do you mean?
     
    #1 calm, Sep 28, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 28, 2019
  2. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2017
    Messages:
    3,831
    Ratings:
    +988
    Religion:
    Itiswhatitis
    It wasn't that the sacrifices were wrong it is because many people had the wrong idea. They thought this was the best way to please God. They thought they could feed God with sacrifices. (Psalm 50:12) Really, God desired worship and repentance from the heart. This is why David says that a song would please God more than a sacrifice. Because He is worshiping God will all his heart and spirit.

    Some people also thought they could go on sinning and doing evil things so long as they sacrificed; then God would be happy. But it's actually more important to do right. (Proverbs 21:3) And in fact the sacrifice of the wicked is an abomination to God. (Proverbs 15:8)

    But the sacrifices were for symbolic or ritualistic cleansing from guilt. But if you weren't really sorry for your sin when you offered a sacrifice or if you offered the sacrifice as "payment" for sin without true repentance from the heart then there was no point to it.

    Besides which God never asked for sacrifices for greater sins.

    For murder or adultery etc. there was no sacrifice to give in the Torah. That's because Jesus is the only true atonement for these sins. God will only forgive these sins because of the blood of Jesus.
     
  3. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,239
    Ratings:
    +1,546
    Religion:
    agnostic
    Is it a sin to have children? God commanded a sin offering from the mother after her purification period was over from childbirth. See Leviticus 12:6.

    Secondly, if a person was too poor, they could bring a grain offering rather than a blood offering, so shedding of blood wasn't always necessary for the forgiveness of sins. See Leviticus 5:11
     
    • Like Like x 1
Loading...