The alt right should pay the medical bills

[AmericanEaglePatriot]

of the millions of sick and dying Americans.

The alt Reich as well as the left wing extremist is a threat to the American values!

 

[Revoltingest]

You should pay the medical bills.
Why don't you?
Are you really that uncaring about the poor & sickly?

 

[pearl]

The alt Reich as well as the left wing extremist is a threat to the American values!

The same values?

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

I have no idea what you're even trying to say.

 

[Lorgar-Aurelian]

You should pay the medical bills.
Why don't you?
Are you really that uncaring about the poor & sickly?

I don't care about the sickly. Does that count?

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't care about the sickly. Does that count?

Only the OP should pay.

 

[Valjean]

Who are these "left wing extremists?"

 

[Ultimatum]

Everyone should remunerate for their own medical bills, unless by charity.

 

[Valjean]

If everyone paid out-of-pocket only the super rich would be able to afford health care.
The point of living in a society, rather than a collection of competing individuals, is that everyone working co-operatively can achieve a much higher standard of living with minimal effort.

A single person might put up a garden shed, but to put up a barn it takes the help of his neighbors.
A single person can afford a bottle of aspirin, but, if everyone pools resources, he can afford bypass surgery.

 

[Confucian Mormon Buddhist]

If everyone paid out-of-pocket only the super rich would be able to afford health care.
The point of living in a society, rather than a collection of competing individuals, is that everyone working co-operatively can achieve a much higher standard of living with minimal effort.

A single person might put up a garden shed, but to put up a barn it takes the help of his neighbors.
A single person can afford a bottle of aspirin, but, if everyone pools resources, he can afford bypass surgery.

If everyone paid out of pocket the costs of health care would be much lower, though. Insurance companies are notorious for wasting money.

 

[Valjean]

If everyone paid out of pocket the costs of health care would be much lower, though. Insurance companies are notorious for wasting money.

Well, with a strict, out-of-pocket system costs might go down simply because expensive treatments, like surgery, Intensive care, chemotherapy, &c, would no longer be available. Providing them for the handful of very rich who could afford them wouldn't be cost effective.

I agree about the insurance companies. In the US, at least, they provide no useful medical service. In fact, they actively seek to deny coverage if at all possible, and to pay for only the least expensive option in most other cases. Drs know not even to try ordering the best alternatives, and billing and collections departments occupy whole floors in hospitals.

No, I'd prefer eliminating the whole industry, and adopting a Beveridge or NHI model.

 

[Ultimatum]

If everyone paid out-of-pocket only the super rich would be able to afford health care.

"If everone paid out-of-pocket only the super rich would be able to afford foods."

Oh wait... that didn't materialise, did it? The exclusive reasons US healthcare is so expensive is because of Government-granted monopolies to drug companies which can raise the price unerring. Couple that with right-libertarian principles of unapposed market share accumulation, current private healthcare systems are not the correct way of doing capitalism and allowing markets to flourish.

is that everyone working co-operatively can achieve a much higher standard of living with minimal effort.

That is correct, which is why specialisation and voluntary cooperation through free enterprise exists.

A single person might put up a garden shed, but to put up a barn it takes the help of his neighbors.

Do you expect the neighbours to do it at your whim though? Do you expect them to pay for their own labours, without receiving rewards of their production inputs? Who pays for the skills of the labourer?

You.

A single person can afford a bottle of aspirin, but, if everyone pools resources, he can afford bypass surgery.

But that's what insurance is. It's a pooling of resources by private economic agents who are else able to reap the rewards of the pool should poor circumstances be inflicted upon them.

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

A single person might put up a garden shed, but to put up a barn it takes the help of his neighbors.

And if the neighbors don't wish to be coerced to build your barn? Why should I be forced to pay for your barn?

A single person can afford a bottle of aspirin, but, if everyone pools resources, he can afford bypass surgery.

Realizing this, people abuse the system and go to the doctor for every sniffle until such a time that the whole system is overbogged and untenable. See:Canada

 

[Valjean]

And if the neighbors don't wish to be coerced to build your barn? Why should I be forced to pay for your barn?

Because a society is not a collection of every-man-for-himself, dog-eat-dog individuals. Ideally, society is a co-op, with everyone pulling together for the common good.

Realizing this, people abuse the system and go to the doctor for every sniffle until such a time that the whole system is overbogged and untenable. See:Canada

I wasn't aware that this was a problem in Canada. Aren't most Canadians happy with their single payer system?

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

Because a society is not a collection of every-man-for-himself, dog-eat-dog individuals. Ideally, society is a co-op, with everyone pulling together for the common good.

And if one disagrees, would you find it to be moral to use coercion to force participation? You see, the thing about the 'greater good' is that not everyone will agree just what that means.

I wasn't aware that this was a problem in Canada. Aren't most Canadians happy with their single payer system?

Hospital beds line the hallways, unattended by not enough nurses. Doctors on salary doing the bare minimum because there is no incentive to do otherwise, ridiculously long waits for critical surgeries, slow ambulance response rates, a complete lack of family doctors in favour of walk in clinics that have lines to get in, sometimes longer than a block when they open, with no guarantee you will even speak to a doctor.

There's your socialism. I **** on your socialism.

 

[UpperLimits]

If everyone paid out-of-pocket only the super rich would be able to afford health care.
The point of living in a society, rather than a collection of competing individuals, is that everyone working co-operatively can achieve a much higher standard of living with minimal effort.

A single person might put up a garden shed, but to put up a barn it takes the help of his neighbors.
A single person can afford a bottle of aspirin, but, if everyone pools resources, he can afford bypass surgery.

Agreed. However, the problem is this: WHO gets to decide how much is reasonable?

I currently live in a land of near communists who figure my bank account is their personal piggy bank. Now hear me out: I'm all for helping out, and paying "my fair share." How it is that some other people's "fair share" is zero, is beyond me, but that's another matter.... Regardless, I'd like to maintain a reasonable standard for myself. After all, I AM the one doing the work for that money. Now, THAT'S FAIR!!

One thing the left needs to step up and realize is that there will NEVER be enough finds to pull everybody up to the same standards. And taxing people into oblivion, sure as heck ain't gonna help anybody in the long run. Once you remove a certain amount of funds from a business enterprise, it simply does not have the necessary funds to continue. And then nobody gets anything. Only fools kill golden geese. (And there's a lot of them getting wacked up in Canada right now....) It wont be too long now before everybody's equal - equally poor.

 

[metis]

I wasn't aware that this was a problem in Canada. Aren't most Canadians happy with their single payer system?

I spend a great deal of time in Canada, and I have yet to meet a single Canadian who would give up their medical system for ours here in the States. Matter of fact, a poll taken in Canada several years ago had it that the Saskatchewan doctor who invented their system was the single most popular person in all of Canadian history.

As an American, I'd much rather have theirs than ours any day of the week.

 

[Twilight Hue]

of the millions of sick and dying Americans.

The alt Reich as well as the left wing extremist is a threat to the American values!

What if the alt right are sick and dying themselves? Who is going to pay their medical bills?

 

[Revoltingest]

I spend a great deal of time in Canada, and I have yet to meet a single Canadian who would give up their medical system for ours here in the States. Matter of fact, a poll taken in Canada several years ago had it that the Saskatchewan doctor who invented their system was the single most popular person in all of Canadian history.

As an American, I'd much rather have theirs than ours any day of the week.

So their system was designed by a doctor.
Ours was designed by a lawyer.
That explains a few things!

 

[UpperLimits]

I spend a great deal of time in Canada, and I have yet to meet a single Canadian who would give up their medical system for ours here in the States. Matter of fact, a poll taken in Canada several years ago had it that the Saskatchewan doctor who invented their system was the single most popular person in all of Canadian history.

As an American, I'd much rather have theirs than ours any day of the week.

It's a decent system, but not perfect. It's greatly mis-managed by government bureaucrats. And VERY expensive. The cost approaches half of the annual provincial budget.

And don't ever get the delusion it's an unlimited paradise. It's rationed. Emergency treatment is pretty good. People are on waiting lists for "optional procedures", sometimes for years. If we had the option of paying for things ourselves, much of this might be eliminated.

As for history, it wasn't quite a "doctor" (I suspect you're thinking MD) that created the system. The man had a doctorate, but not in medicine - it was in theology. Tommy Douglas was a Baptist minister before taking to politics.