The Afterlife

[Cacotopia]

I was just wondering, since no one has reported on what it actually is. People just say it's a place your soul goes. Is it physical? Or is it ethereal? If the latter why recently are there questions that correlate to this current life, even remotely relevant to the afterlife. If it is a destination for souls then I'm guessing isn't physical.

The only think I can imagine would be close to 'heaven' would be a virtual world where any and all desires can be realized but not physically experienced. Although, new advances in technology may get us closer to feeling what happens to us in the digital realm.

But would such a place even grant you access to those desires when restriction of self in this world is part of the requirement to even get into heaven. What would have been the purpose of denial here if you had no restriction there? And once you get there can you still get banished to hell? There are so many questions. But a whole lot of it makes no sense.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Current NDEs

 

[WalterTrull]

a whole lot of it makes no sense.

Often, when it makes no sense, it's because we entrain false premises.

 

[Thief]

What would have been the purpose of denial here if you had no restriction there?

I have posted repeatedly.....we have discipline in this life
I suspect greater discipline in the next

this life is ground work.....literally
this life will produce a unique spirit on each occasion of a body

then we cross over

God and heaven will take a look over what has risen from the dust

if your mind and heart can walk in grace......you may follow
if you don't have what it takes......too bad

I suspect the restrictions lean to a peaceful approach
your approach toward others

 

[Twilight Hue]

I was just wondering, since no one has reported on what it actually is. People just say it's a place your soul goes. Is it physical? Or is it ethereal? If the latter why recently are there questions that correlate to this current life, even remotely relevant to the afterlife. If it is a destination for souls then I'm guessing isn't physical.

The only think I can imagine would be close to 'heaven' would be a virtual world where any and all desires can be realized but not physically experienced. Although, new advances in technology may get us closer to feeling what happens to us in the digital realm.

But would such a place even grant you access to those desires when restriction of self in this world is part of the requirement to even get into heaven. What would have been the purpose of denial here if you had no restriction there? And once you get there can you still get banished to hell? There are so many questions. But a whole lot of it makes no sense.

Far as I'm concerned. This life is the afterlife.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I figure there is no afterlife (or before life. or between life). Just life.

"Life and death are illusions. We are in constant state of transformation" As so says Alexanjro Gonzalez Innarittu.

I like the analogy of the waves of the ocean. Gravity pulls at the water making waves during full moon while calmer between the phases. Life and death are those two sides new moon and full moon. When the body and brian dies, no more waves. All calm. Perfect death.

Afterlife upsets that flow trying to make stable a wave that by its nature will keep moving until nature takes its course without us pinning it down with our theories and philosophies.

 

[George-ananda]

I was just wondering, since no one has reported on what it actually is.

I personally don't agree on the last part of that statement 'since no one has reported on what it actually is'.

I believe I have a reasonably clear picture of the afterlife from my objective consideration of Near Death Experiences, spirit communications and those with gifted psychic input.

I think the afterlife is part of a continuous growing experience that includes reincarnation after a stay on the higher (astral and mental) planes.

 

[columbus]

I believe I have a reasonably clear picture of the afterlife from my objective consideration of Near Death Experiences, spirit communications and those with gifted psychic input.

You also believe that a pic you saw on Facebook was somebody's guardian angel, that South America shifted hundreds of miles eastward since you were a child, and that some odd objects from Central America are mummies of alien beings.

I don't consider your opinions evidence of anything more important than your ego. You like to believe that you're smarter and more perceptive than the rest of us, but I see no reason to think that.
Tom

 

[George-ananda]

You also believe that a pic you saw on Facebook was somebody's guardian angel, that South America shifted hundreds of miles eastward since you were a child, and that some odd objects from Central America are mummies of alien beings.

Each of those things are serious discussions requiring more than drive-by attacks with no details or chance for rebuttal.

I don't consider your opinions evidence of anything more important than your ego. You like to believe that you're smarter and more perceptive than the rest of us, but I see no reason to think that.
Tom

i present my seriously considered positions like everyone else. Not sure I’m deserving this.

 

[Cacotopia]

I personally don't agree on the last part of that statement 'since no one has reported on what it actually is'.

I believe I have a reasonably clear picture of the afterlife from my objective consideration of Near Death Experiences, spirit communications and those with gifted psychic input.

I think the afterlife is part of a continuous growing experience that includes reincarnation after a stay on the higher (astral and mental) planes.

I meant no one has ever come back from the black hole of perma death to report on what the afterlife is.

 

[Cacotopia]

near death isn't death.

 

[George-ananda]

I meant no one has ever come back from the black hole of perma death to report on what the afterlife is.

I think spirit communication and visitations have occurred with people after permanent death. And some have discussed the afterlife state.

 

[Cacotopia]

So you believe in psychic mediums? C'mon dude...

 

[Trailblazer]

I think spirit communication and visitations have occurred with people after permanent death. And some have discussed the afterlife state.

Indeed they have. Below is an excerpt from communication of a soldier to a medium by a soldier killed in battle during WWI. The little book can be read on this link: Private Dowding by Wellesley Tudor Pole

“Physical death is nothing. There really is no cause for fear. Some of my pals grieved for me. When I 'went West" they thought I was dead for good. This is what happened. I have a perfectly clear memory of the whole incident. I was waiting at the corner of a traverse to go on guard. It was a fine evening. I had no special intimation of danger, until I heard the whizz of a shell. Then following an explosion, somewhere behind me. I crouched down involuntarily, but was too late. Something struck, hard, hard hard, against my neck. Shall I ever lose the memory of that hardness? It is the only unpleasant incident that I can remember. I fell and as I did so, without passing through an apparent interval of unconsciousness, I found myself outside myself! You see I am telling my story simply; you will find it easier to understand. You will learn to know what a small incident this dying is.

Think of it! One moment I was alive, in the earthly sense, looking over a trench parapet, unalarmed, normal. Five seconds later I was standing outside my body, helping two of my pals to carry my body down the trench labyrinth towards a dressing station. They thought I was senseless but alive. I did not know whether I had jumped out of my body through shell shock, temporarily or for ever. You see what a small thing is death, even the violent death of war! I seemed in a dream. I had dreamt that someone or something has knocked me down. Now I was dreaming that I was outside my body. Soon I should wake up and find myself in the traverse waiting to go on guard...It all happened so simply. Death for me was a simple experience--no horror, no long-drawn suffering, no conflict. It comes to many in the same way. My pals need not fear death. Few of them do; nevertheless there is an underlying dread of possible extinction. I dreaded that; many soldiers do, but they rarely have time to think about such things. As in my case, thousands of soldiers pass over without knowing it. If there be shock, it is not the shock of physical death. Shock comes later when comprehension dawns: "Where is my body? Surely I am not dead!' In my own case, I knew nothing more than I have already related, at the time. When I found that my two pals could carry my body without my help, I dropped behind. I just followed, in a curiously humble way. Humble? Yes, because I seemed so useless. We met a stretcher party. My body was hoisted on to the stretcher. I wondered when I should get back into it again. You see, I was so little 'dead' that I imagined I was still physically alive. Think of it a moment before we pass on. I had been struck by a shell splinter. There was no pain. The life was knocked out of my body; again, I say, there was no pain.Then I found that the whole of myself--all, that is, that thinks and sees and feels and knows--was still alive and conscious! I had begun a new chapter of life. I will tell you what I felt like. It was as if I had been running hard until, hot and breathless, I had thrown my overcoat away. The coat was my body, and if I had not thrown it away I should have suffocated. I cannot describe the experience in a better way; there is nothing else to describe.” Private Dowding, p. 14-16

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think spirit communication and visitations have occurred with people after permanent death. And some have discussed the afterlife state.

What is the nature and definition of death that one can have said to have died (no brain. no heart. no awareness), predict X amount of things happen, wake up but still considered dead to have a "near" death experience?

And, how does NDE prove anything beyond death unless someone actualy died (no brian. no heart. no awareness.) and came back?

That, and if the mind or awareness or consciousness is separtate from the brain and body, when one is cremated, what is their NDE dependent on and how can they express it if their core-self is not their material self?

 

[Trailblazer]

I was just wondering, since no one has reported on what it actually is. People just say it's a place your soul goes. Is it physical? Or is it ethereal? If the latter why recently are there questions that correlate to this current life, even remotely relevant to the afterlife. If it is a destination for souls then I'm guessing isn't physical.

You guessed right, it is not physical. That said, since all we have ever experienced is physical, it is impossible for us to understand what it is like to be a spiritual being rather than a physical body. Here is part of my little write-up:

The soul animates the human body while we are alive on earth. The soul communicates its desires through the brain to the physical body, which thereby expresses itself, so the soul is responsible for the mind, senses and emotions. The body is just a vehicle that carries the soul around while we are alive on earth, a place to house the soul. The soul is our self, our true reality; the body is just our outer shell.

The soul is the sum total of the personality so it is the person himself; the physical body is pure matter with no real identity. The person, after he dies and leaves his physical body behind, goes to the spiritual world where the soul takes on a spiritual body made up of heavenly elements that exist in the spiritual realm. Since the requirements of the physical body no longer impinge upon the soul in the spiritual world, the soul is like a bird that has been released from a cage, free at last from the requirements of the material world.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”
Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 194

“The world beyond is as different from this world as this world is different from that of the child while still in the womb of its mother. When the soul attaineth the Presence of God, it will assume the form that best befitteth its immortality and is worthy of its celestial habitation.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 157​

The only think I can imagine would be close to 'heaven' would be a virtual world where any and all desires can be realized but not physically experienced. Although, new advances in technology may get us closer to feeling what happens to us in the digital realm.

But would such a place even grant you access to those desires when restriction of self in this world is part of the requirement to even get into heaven. What would have been the purpose of denial here if you had no restriction there? And once you get there can you still get banished to hell? There are so many questions. But a whole lot of it makes no sense.

Clearly, not everyone is going to go to heaven. Some people will go to hell, but it will be by their own choosing. This is complicated but if you want to know more about it you can read this book entitled Heaven and Hell. Suffice to say a lot of people are going to be very surprised. I do not want to be surprised which is why I am trying to prepare. Eternity is a long time.

Mind you, I do not necessarily believe that everything in the book is exactly right because since the book was written we have more information he did not have, but as far as heaven and hell are concerned I think at least this is a general guide as to how we get there and who ends up there. It is not a physical place, it is a dimension. The soul has to exist somewhere just as the soul has to have some kind of form to exist in.

 

[George-ananda]

Indeed they have. Below is an excerpt from communication of a soldier to a medium by a soldier killed in battle during WWI. The little book can be read on this link: Private Dowding by Wellesley Tudor Pole

“Physical death is nothing. There really is no cause for fear. Some of my pals grieved for me. When I 'went West" they thought I was dead for good. This is what happened. I have a perfectly clear memory of the whole incident. I was waiting at the corner of a traverse to go on guard. It was a fine evening. I had no special intimation of danger, until I heard the whizz of a shell. Then following an explosion, somewhere behind me. I crouched down involuntarily, but was too late. Something struck, hard, hard hard, against my neck. Shall I ever lose the memory of that hardness? It is the only unpleasant incident that I can remember. I fell and as I did so, without passing through an apparent interval of unconsciousness, I found myself outside myself! You see I am telling my story simply; you will find it easier to understand. You will learn to know what a small incident this dying is.

Think of it! One moment I was alive, in the earthly sense, looking over a trench parapet, unalarmed, normal. Five seconds later I was standing outside my body, helping two of my pals to carry my body down the trench labyrinth towards a dressing station. They thought I was senseless but alive. I did not know whether I had jumped out of my body through shell shock, temporarily or for ever. You see what a small thing is death, even the violent death of war! I seemed in a dream. I had dreamt that someone or something has knocked me down. Now I was dreaming that I was outside my body. Soon I should wake up and find myself in the traverse waiting to go on guard...It all happened so simply. Death for me was a simple experience--no horror, no long-drawn suffering, no conflict. It comes to many in the same way. My pals need not fear death. Few of them do; nevertheless there is an underlying dread of possible extinction. I dreaded that; many soldiers do, but they rarely have time to think about such things. As in my case, thousands of soldiers pass over without knowing it. If there be shock, it is not the shock of physical death. Shock comes later when comprehension dawns: "Where is my body? Surely I am not dead!' In my own case, I knew nothing more than I have already related, at the time. When I found that my two pals could carry my body without my help, I dropped behind. I just followed, in a curiously humble way. Humble? Yes, because I seemed so useless. We met a stretcher party. My body was hoisted on to the stretcher. I wondered when I should get back into it again. You see, I was so little 'dead' that I imagined I was still physically alive. Think of it a moment before we pass on. I had been struck by a shell splinter. There was no pain. The life was knocked out of my body; again, I say, there was no pain.Then I found that the whole of myself--all, that is, that thinks and sees and feels and knows--was still alive and conscious! I had begun a new chapter of life. I will tell you what I felt like. It was as if I had been running hard until, hot and breathless, I had thrown my overcoat away. The coat was my body, and if I had not thrown it away I should have suffocated. I cannot describe the experience in a better way; there is nothing else to describe.” Private Dowding, p. 14-16

Exactly. Consciousness is non-physical. Thought and feeling occur on the astral and mental planes. At death we just drop our physical interface to the physical plane, as shown in this story. We continue to think and feel as before.

 

[Vaderecta]

I was just wondering, since no one has reported on what it actually is. People just say it's a place your soul goes. Is it physical? Or is it ethereal? If the latter why recently are there questions that correlate to this current life, even remotely relevant to the afterlife. If it is a destination for souls then I'm guessing isn't physical.

The only think I can imagine would be close to 'heaven' would be a virtual world where any and all desires can be realized but not physically experienced. Although, new advances in technology may get us closer to feeling what happens to us in the digital realm.

But would such a place even grant you access to those desires when restriction of self in this world is part of the requirement to even get into heaven. What would have been the purpose of denial here if you had no restriction there? And once you get there can you still get banished to hell? There are so many questions. But a whole lot of it makes no sense.

Lets just go to facts, if anything is going on with you its because of your brain. If you take a railroad stake and put it thru your brain you will die or change. (That is a real very crazy example, go google... its cray)

Currently we can do things less invasive. We can inhibit parts of the brain with magnets... not like permanent magnets you find on your fridge... look up the god helmet and anything TMS related. In addition we can use some chemicals to shut your brain down and slice and dice you, remove failed organs, transfer new ones in and you have no idea... Nada. When you wake up you are like what... Last thing I remember is counting backwards to 0 from 10 and I only made it to 7 and the doc is like you made it 5 and then told us how you peed in your bed until you were 11 and you still love amanda which is some girl you met at camp during one lunch when you were 13 but you dont remember that or the slicing and dicing. Your life is in your brain. If your brain stops you stop. Your brain is not a magical housing for a soul or an antennae for alien consciousness it is simply a complicated form of a brain which is working evolutionary right now. Don't think that is a special magical thing... Dinosaurs and every other hominid species was around for many more millions of years then sapiens have been around. It's interesting. We can imagine anything. We have dreams and hopes and desires. We can write fiction and believe in fiction. Harry Potter, Sword of Shannara, Wish Stones, Fairies, Sand dan Glokta, Jehovah and really anything you can conceive of because you have a brain.

No brain = no more fictions. Your brain is not working due to drugs because of slice and dice or death... You are not even really your brain but you need your brain to believe you are. (That is a completely different tale)

 

[George-ananda]

What is the nature and definition of death that one can have said to have died (no brain. no heart. no awareness), predict X amount of things happen, wake up but still considered dead to have a "near" death experience?

And, how does NDE prove anything beyond death unless someone actualy died (no brian. no heart. no awareness.) and came back?

That, and if the mind or awareness or consciousness is separtate from the brain and body, when one is cremated, what is their NDE dependent on and how can they express it if their core-self is not their material self?

It seems as though you may missed the point of that verbiage of mine you quoted.

That particular verbiage had nothing to do with Near Death Experiences. I was talking about people that have been dead for years or even a century. They still come back and communicate through spirit mediums in my opinion.

See the story of Private Dowding in post #14 above from @Trailblazer This is the kind of thing I was referring to in that passage (this has nothing to do with Near Death Experiences where a person regains consciousness).

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I meant no one has ever come back from the black hole of perma death to report on what the afterlife is.

What are you expecting, corpses to return to life and tell you what it's like? That will be a bit difficult since the brain starts turning to mush pretty much as soon as it's deprived of oxygen.