The 9/11 Truther Movement Versus A Fundamental, Unchallengeable Theological Presupposition

[Zog Has-fallen]

The WTCs did slide. You can see quite clearly. especially with the South Tower, how due to the uneven heating & weakening of the structure, that it toppled & slid.

It's very obvious. The top of South Tower did topple to the left but exploded completely almost immediately in midair before hitting the ground.

 

[Zog Has-fallen]

Before anyone asks how you can make a building 'safe' to collapse; Basically what you do is build it so that the structure is intentionally weaker on the inside portions than the outside ones. That will result in a domino effect, which will (hopefully) cause the building to start collapsing in towards itself rather than just fall apart.

You obviously think you know more than the combined training and experience of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

 

[Nietzsche]

It's very obvious. The top of South Tower did topple to the left but exploded completely almost immediately in midair before hitting the ground.

Yes, there were explosions in the towers. Do you know what happens to concrete under heat & pressure? It explodes. Why? Because despite appearances, concrete is full of holes, containing air. When it reaches a certain temperature(or pressure becomes too great) it fails catastrophically.

Here's that happening on small-scale;

And here(skip to about 1:18);

You obviously think you know more than the combined training and experience of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

Me personally? No, I probably don't. But much like in the Creationism/Evolution "debate", the side I'm on has a hundred-fold more experts and educated individuals behind it. I'm just bringing up their arguments. Much like Creationism, your side has a statistically-irrelevant, meaningless number of otherwise-educated individuals.

I'm willing to bet I could even make a variant of 'Project Steve'(a list of scientists with the name 'Steve' who endorse & support evolution in response to the lists Creationists like to use showing that there are, somehow, educated people who believe their rubbish, the joke being that the 'Steve' list is still longer than the Creationists' one) that will grossly outnumber the crackpot-theorists on the "Architects & Engineers for 9/11 Truth".

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Truth is modular. Niels H. Harrit et al don't have to explain everything. It was already explained in the opening post precisely how the explosives could have been planted without causing the slightest alarm but you have expressly revealed that you're not interested so you have no right to complain about missing details.

So, your only rebuttal is to say they don't have to explain everything, and that because I am offering a rebuttal I have no right to complain over these unanswered questions?
That is not how debate works.

I don't think you know how controlled demolitions work. The idea is to weaken the 'outside' supporting beams the exact same amount, at the exact same time while utterly obliterating the interior ones, to ensure that it 'caves in' at the center rather than sliding or toppling over. And guess what? The WTCs did slide. You can see quite clearly. especially with the South Tower, how due to the uneven heating & weakening of the structure, that it toppled & slid. Only the sheer weight of the tower, and how it was designed(I hope it's obvious that buildings are designed intentionally so that if they're ever fatally weakened, they're designed so that any collapse will be as 'safe' as possible) prevented it from doing more damage.

I've been arguing with people since it happened that those towers coming down did not look like a controlled demolition. And that is because they didn't cave in on themselves, it didn't look like there was an implosion sort-of-look that happens from controlled demolitions, and there was not a "nice little pile" of debris once they fell, but rather the towers slide, debris was scattered everywhere, and surrounding buildings were damaged, even though a goal of controlled demolition is minimize the risk of damage to nearby buildings.

You obviously think you know more than the combined training and experience of Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

And they seem to have less knowledge than the other multiple groups and individuals of engineers who have been saying since it happened that it was not a controlled demolition, and all these conspiracy theories are not supported by the evidence.

It's very obvious. The top of South Tower did topple to the left but exploded completely almost immediately in midair before hitting the ground.

There is nothing unusual about that happened under the circumstances.

 

[Father Heathen]

Your government kills it's own citizens, you forgot about the death penalty.

Wacky "truther" nonsense aside, and regardless of ones opinion regarding capital punishment, carrying out a convicted criminal's sentence isn't comparable to clandestine murder of innocent citizens.

 

[Bunyip]

Wacky "truther" nonsense aside, and regardless of ones opinion regarding capital punishment, carrying out a convicted criminal's sentence isn't comparable to clandestine murder of innocent citizens.

It is in my country.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It is in my country.

Maybe in your country, but clearly there is a very big difference between carrying out a legally prescribed punishment, and carrying out a terrorist attack that killed thousands and keeping it a well-guarded secret (or not even a secret at all, according to some versions of the truther position).
But there is a strong difference.

 

[Father Heathen]

It is in my country.

And this is relevant or noteworthy how, exactly?

 

[Bunyip]

Maybe in your country, but clearly there is a very big difference between carrying out a legally prescribed punishment, and carrying out a terrorist attack that killed thousands and keeping it a well-guarded secret (or not even a secret at all, according to some versions of the truther position).
But there is a strong difference.

Sure, the thousands executed, and the thousands killed in 9/11 are different situations. Did you think I was equating them?

 

[Bunyip]

And this is relevant or noteworthy how, exactly?

Because the US Gov has executed far more civilians in peace time than were killed in 9/11.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Sure, the thousands executed, and the thousands killed in 9/11 are different situations. Did you think I was equating them?

What I am referring to is the difference between someone who has went through the legal process and was sentenced to death (I, personally, oppose the death penalty), and something that involved the slaughter of hundreds of innocents who had no trial, who committed no crime, and who, under a government that does authorize the death penalty, did not deserve death.
Death is death, but even a legally prescribed death is different from the indiscriminate slaughter of hundreds.
And, yes, you did say they are comparable in your country (Australia, if I remember correctly). But, clearly, they are not. The death penalty isn't terrorism, but rather a hangover from when society was far more barbaric, and when it was believed that such things actually benefited society and deterred crime.

 

[Bunyip]

What I am referring to is the difference between someone who has went through the legal process and was sentenced to death (I, personally, oppose the death penalty), and something that involved the slaughter of hundreds of innocents who had no trial, who committed no crime, and who, under a government that does authorize the death penalty, did not deserve death.

Sure, I guess I just see a lot of young (mostly) black men being executed by a corrupt system.

Death is death, but even a legally prescribed death is different from the indiscriminate slaughter of hundreds.
And, yes, you did say they are comparable in your country (Australia, if I remember correctly). But, clearly, they are not. The death penalty isn't terrorism, but rather a hangover from when society was far more barbaric, and when it was believed that such things actually benefited society and deterred crime.

 

[Father Heathen]

Because the US Gov has executed far more civilians in peace time than were killed in 9/11.

Because carrying out the sentence of a criminal convicted of murder is totally the same as killing innocent citizens at random. Apples and oranges.

 

[Bunyip]

Because carrying out the sentence of a criminal convicted of murder is totally the same as killing innocent citizens at random. Apples and oranges.

Sure a government killing thousands of citizens when incarcerated is different than the same government killing thousands of civilians in a public space. (assuming the 'truthers' have it right) Yes they are different circumstances, but both are the killing of thousands of civilians - that was the point.