That Whole Homosexual--Sin Thing

[BilliardsBall]

Ah, that must explain the crime and poverty rates. Genetically curing downs syndrome does not equal killing babies. It edits out a life limiting disease - which isnt to say we shouldnt treat those who have it with any less respect.

I dont know of any developed countries post 40's that practice eugenics.

For the record, I think aborting a foetus because it has downs is entirely wrong

So, the way we should treat down syndrome children "with respect" is to abort them?

 

[SkepticThinker]

I'll stick with the validity of what I posted. A few things, though...

What validity?

Are you telling me I countered your points for no reason? That you can't even be bothered to take the time to address them and then you're going to just repeat many of your assertions all over again? Seriously?

Will gay parents teach a child that gay sex is a sin that needs to be repented of?

Why would they and why should they?

Again, if all you have is the sin thing, you're not going to get very far in your argumentation. Not everyone is a Christian, and not everyone agrees with you that homosexuality is innately bad because it's a sin.

How many gay children will be taught that the Bible is not a good reference for sexual morality?

The Bible is not a good reference for a lot of aspects of morality.

How many children will be lost because they won't be taken to a real, Biblically-based church?

How have you demonstrated that not attending Biblically-based church is harmful to anyone?

How many active gays will be lost because they won't repent of their same sex sins? What did Jesus say? "Unless you repent, you too will perish" (Luke 13:3).

I'd say that's a question for your God to work out, assuming he exists at all, of course.

How many gays and fornicators and adulterers have died due to AIDS and other diseases because of their sexual immorality?

How many obese people have died from heart disease? How many heroine addicts have died from overdoses? How many children have died from being hit by a car?
How many heterosexuals have died from AIDS?

Why pick only on gay people?

And you ask, about gay sex, "How does that harm anyone?" That's laughable if it weren't so sad.

You still haven't explained how gay sex harms anyone. You haven't explained how just being gay at all has harmed anyone.
You do realize that every gay person who has sexual intercourse doesn't automatically just contract HIV, right?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

So, the way we should treat down syndrome children "with respect" is to abort them?

I think he was referring to CRISPR gene editing.

 

[Spartan]

What validity?

Are you telling me I countered your points for no reason? That you can't even be bothered to take the time to address them and then you're going to just repeat many of your assertions all over again? Seriously?

Why would they and why should they?

Again, if all you have is the sin thing, you're not going to get very far in your argumentation. Not everyone is a Christian, and not everyone agrees with you that homosexuality is innately bad because it's a sin.

The Bible is not a good reference for a lot of aspects of morality.

How have you demonstrated that not attending Biblically-based church is harmful to anyone?

I'd say that's a question for your God to work out, assuming he exists at all, of course.

How many obese people have died from heart disease? How many heroine addicts have died from overdoses? How many children have died from being hit by a car?
How many heterosexuals have died from AIDS?

Why pick only on gay people?

You still haven't explained how gay sex harms anyone. You haven't explained how just being gay at all has harmed anyone.
You do realize that every gay person who has sexual intercourse doesn't automatically just contract HIV, right?

I can see you're not up to speed on the spiritual and other harmful effects of homosexual sin. And the Bible is not a good reference for morality?

That's a real howler. Have a great life, LOL.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I can see you're not up to speed on the spiritual and other harmful effects of homosexual sin.

Then perhaps you could go through my points (which are responses to YOUR points) and explain where you think I've gone wrong in responding to your points.
You know like, extend me the same courtesy I've extended to you.

This discussion isn't about who better understands spiritual matters or the Bible. It's about your claim that homosexuality is harmful. Your claim apparently does not extend any further than, "my religion says its' bad, so it's bad." Sorry but that's not going to get you anywhere.

And the Bible is not a good reference for morality?

That's a real howler. Have a great life, LOL.

It condones slavery. Enough said.


I can see you're not up to speed on having a proper back and forth conversation. What a shame that you have to hide like that.

 

[We Never Know]

I can see you're not up to speed on the spiritual and other harmful effects of homosexual sin. And the Bible is not a good reference for morality?

That's a real howler. Have a great life, LOL.

Myths always seem to have an effect on people's actions. Like a god,, santa, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, the great pumpkin are all myths exploited to control the actions of others.

 

[Spartan]

Myths always seem to have an effect on people's actions. Like a god,, santa, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, the great pumpkin are all myths exploited to control the actions of others.

The myth is yours, for thinking God is a myth.

 

[Spartan]

Then perhaps you could go through my points (which are responses to YOUR points) and explain where you think I've gone wrong in responding to your points.
You know like, extend me the same courtesy I've extended to you.

This discussion isn't about who better understands spiritual matters or the Bible. It's about your claim that homosexuality is harmful. Your claim apparently does not extend any further than, "my religion says its' bad, so it's bad." Sorry but that's not going to get you anywhere.

It condones slavery. Enough said.

I can see you're not up to speed on having a proper back and forth conversation. What a shame that you have to hide like that.

You're full of folly.

Let me just take one of your follies for now - that Biblical Christianity condoned slavery. Someone with a beginner's understanding of the teachings of Jesus would know why your claim is bogus. But I'll lay it out for you anyway.

Matthew 22:39 (Jesus speaking) - ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Jesus came to change the hearts of men. Not start a military rebellion, which was what would have happened if Jesus and his followers tried to forcefully change the system.

So, what part of ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ do you think in any way condones enslaving one's fellow man? That alone blows you out of the water.

And by the way, a good portion of slavery in Jesus' day was VOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. A lot more was the sin of enslaving people.

You need to go back and study up on your Biblical theology for a while and put your anti-Christianity nonsense on hold.

 

[SkepticThinker]

You're full of folly.

Do you have anything of actual substance to contribute?

Let me just take one of your follies for now - that Biblical Christianity condoned slavery. Someone with a beginner's understanding of the teachings of Jesus would know why your claim is bogus. But I'll lay it out for you anyway.

Matthew 22:39 (Jesus speaking) - ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’ Jesus came to change the hearts of men. Not start a military rebellion, which was what would have happened if Jesus and his followers tried to forcefully change the system.

So, what part of ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ do you think in any way condones enslaving one's fellow man? That alone blows you out of the water.

And by the way, a good portion of slavery in Jesus' day was VOLUNTARY SERVITUDE. A lot more was the sin of enslaving people.

You need to go back and study up on your Biblical theology for a while and put your anti-Christianity nonsense on hold.

You need to go read and study up on Exodus 21 for a while and put your pro-Christianity nonsense on hold.


Voluntary servitude? Now, THAT'S funny. Slaves are clearly viewed as property in Exodus 21. And I'm not talking about Hebrew slaves.

 

[Spartan]

Do you have anything of actual substance to contribute?


You need to go read and study up on Exodus 21 for a while and put your pro-Christianity nonsense on hold.


Voluntary servitude? Now, THAT'S funny. Slaves are clearly viewed as property in Exodus 21. And I'm not talking about Hebrew slaves.

Tsk tsk. You're still in the dark. We're talking New Covenant, New Testament Christianity, and you dredge up the Old Testament. But just to show you again how lost you are on the subject then know this:

Slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

And you never did answer the most important question: What part of ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ do you think in any way condones enslaving one's fellow man? Are you stumped for an answer?

 

[SkepticThinker]

Tsk tsk. You're still in the dark. We're talking New Covenant, New Testament Christianity, and you dredge up the Old Testament. But just to show you again how lost you are on the subject then know this:

Slavery in the Bible was usually one of three things:

1. Voluntary servitude as a way of existence.

2. Punishment by God on sinful men and nations for their crimes against God and humanity.

3. A sin - enslaving one's fellow man - that wasn't approved by God.

I've heard all the apologetics on this before.

I see you want to go with this "new convenant" argument. Okay, so you also throw out the old Testament? That means that you also throw out the Ten Commandments, right? Oh, and original sin also, right?

In Exodus 21 slavery is condoned by God "him"self.

And then there's that bit in Ephesians in the New Testament where Paul admonishes slaves to obey their masters.

Funny how God gave all these directions for owning slaves in the Old Testament and then just forgot to clear up anything in the New Testament about how owning slaves are actually bad. Hmmm

And you never did answer the most important question: What part of ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ do you think in any way condones enslaving one's fellow man? Are you stumped for an answer?

I think it's weird that God didn't mention that in the Old Testament, but instead gave instructions and directions for finding and owning and treating slaves.

 

[We Never Know]

The myth is yours, for thinking God is a myth.

Myths have always been used to control the actions of others. Take santa, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, the great pumpkin are all myths that have been exploited to control the actions of others, mainly kids.

The god myth is used in the same way to exploit the actions of adults being adults know there is no santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, great pumpkin, hence enters the god myth which can neither be proven or disproven so many people choose to live by what if.

 

[Spartan]

I've heard all the apologetics on this before.

I see you want to go with this "new convenant" argument. Okay, so you also throw out the old Testament? That means that you also throw out the Ten Commandments, right? Oh, and original sin also, right?

In Exodus 21 slavery is condoned by God "him"self.

And then there's that bit in Ephesians in the New Testament where Paul admonishes slaves to obey their masters.

Funny how God gave all these directions for owning slaves in the Old Testament and then just forgot to clear up anything in the New Testament about how owning slaves are actually bad. Hmmm

I think it's weird that God didn't mention that in the Old Testament, but instead gave instructions and directions for finding and owning and treating slaves.

Once again -

What part of ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ do you think in any way condones enslaving one's fellow man?

 

[Spartan]

Myths have always been used to control the actions of others. Take santa, the easter bunny, the tooth fairy, the great pumpkin are all myths that have been exploited to control the actions of others, mainly kids.

The god myth is used in the same way to exploit the actions of adults being adults know there is no santa, easter bunny, tooth fairy, great pumpkin, hence enters the god myth which can neither be proven or disproven so many people choose to live by what if.

It appears you have not done any serious study on the person of Jesus Christ. If you had you would know he was a real individual in history.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Once again -

What part of ‘Love your neighbor as yourself’ do you think in any way condones enslaving one's fellow man?

Already answered.


Once again -

Please respond to the content of my post.

 

[Spartan]

Already answered.


Once again -

Please respond to the content of my post.

Not until you answer the question posed three times to you. See Post 593 for the latest one you avoided.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Not until you answer the question posed three times to you. See Post 593 for the latest one you avoided.

I responded to it in post #591. Which you dismissed and then repeated the same question again. Weird.

 

[Skwim]

It appears you have not done any serious study on the person of Jesus Christ. If you had you would know he was a real individual in history.

Well, the evidence is pretty sketchy, and hardly definitive. So, while he may have been a real individual, that's about all that can be said with any kind of certainty.

.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Nonsense. And it's not "my" view, but the view of the Creator. You approve of a lifestyle that God Himself finds abhorrent.

Your subjective morality is at odds with God's objective moral code. I cannot view your anti-biblical, carnal, moral beliefs in a positive light.

First, prove your god exists. Then prove what thinks about gay sex. Then, and only then, will I accept what you've just said. Otherwise, I think you're spouting bigotry based on fairy tales and the rules of an imaginary friend.

Even if you did prove all of the above, I would still reject that moral code because its senseless and not moral.

 

[Dan Mellis]

Well, the evidence is pretty sketchy, and hardly definitive. So, while he may have been a real individual, that's about all that can be said with any kind of certainty.

.

There's also a contingent of biblical scholars who are undoubtedly more qualified in their opinions than any of us who believe jesus did not exist.