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Texas pastor openly calls on 'Christian nationalists' to 'impose their values on society'

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In today's society it seems to be the opposite. The message encourages to be homosexual rather than heterosexual. And I think it is interesting shift. However, I think that something is called "negative message" doesn't necessary mean it is not true.
What it is doing is removing the social stigma associated with homosexuals, which is allowing them to come out of the closet society pushed them into, and join and participate in society as they are. In other words, society is becoming more open and inclusive of others' differences, rather than marginalizing them and shunning them as we have in the past. That is in fact a change. But is that a bad change?

What it is not doing however, is encouraging people to be homosexuals. They either are homosexuals, or they are not. You can't encourage a hetrosexual to beome a homosexual, anymore than you can make a homosexual a hetrosexual. So there is definitely not a "promoting" of gayness, to sell people on the idea of becoming gay.

That is a distortion that anti-homosexual detractors wish to make you afraid, as if there is some hidden "gay agenda". What agenda? To be recognized as equal citizens just as they are, without having to hide in the closet for the sake of others who are uncomfortable with them as they are? That's the only agenda I can think of. Do you see some other motivation? To make gay converts from the ranks of hetrosexuals? It's not a belief system. It's one's sexual orientation.

Here's a great meme I saw that really captures the absurdity of calling it the "gay agenda". :)

gay agenda.jpg

This comical meme comes back to the point I made before about some Christians projecting their shame and guilt upon others. As someone who was part of a church which believed in proselytizing others at every opportunity that would present itself, I can speak about the "dirty feeling" I personally had always having some hidden agenda, some underlying motive behind the smile and being nice to others to "show them Jesus' love" in order to get them to come to church and be "saved". Behind all that was simple self-interest.

It was promoted to us that saving souls was a badge of honor, on top of being your obligation to God as a follower of Jesus. You were guilted if you didn't do your duty to evangelize others. And they spoke about getting a "soul-winner's crown" in heaven as your reward for being a good and faithful Christian. All of that is driven by the ego to puff itself up, to win approval of others, to win their acceptance and boost your own self-worth. And NONE of that is driven by genuine, agape Love.

The heart deep inside of us, knows this. We know it's not truely genuine deep down inside, even though we may feel "concern" for others at some level. So at the deepest of spiritual levels, the part of us that knows authentic love in ourselves, but sees this ulterior motive 'love' instead, this hidden, secret agenda, that is where projection of our own shame and guilt upon others, so as not to truly come to terms with our own devious motives in ourselves. And then you have Christians projecting upon gays and others their own guilts and shames about having hidden agendas, trying to "promote" gayness, as they are promoting religiousness.

There is nothing in reality that indicates gays are trying to promote gayness for the sake of selling it as a "lifestyle" for others to join up and become. Yet, some Christians somehow see that, and I fully believe that is because that is how they see themselves, and so they view others with that same distrustfulness that they judge themselves with, hidden down in their own subconsciousness minds they try to repress and hide from sight from themselves. Yet is is there, a self-created demon in their subconscious minds that is distorting their own conscious minds to see others with fear and suspicion. It is all self-generated, and does not come from the actual actions of others.

Gays saying "I'm here. Acknowledge me. I'm a human too", is not promoting gayness to sell others on the idea of becoming gays, the ways Christians promote Christianity with the motivation, or agenda to make converts. Only one of those groups is trying to make converts. And it's not gays.

Bible tells why Jesus came. He came to declare forgiveness. If we say, nothing is wrong, would there be any need for forgiveness?
I'm not sure how we go from Jesus teaching a better way than the OT law, to "nothing is wrong", and "anything goes". Jesus didn't teach that, nor do I believe that. Of course there is good action and bad action. But what is the difference is what some people focus on as "bad" or wrong, is in fact not the point at all.

Point in case, eating shellfish. Some call that a sin, because it is called an "abomination" in the book of Leviticus. But as Jesus clearly taught, it's not what goes into the mouth that defiles you, but what comes out of it. And Paul in Romans 14 points out as well, that eating certain foods is important to one person's faith, while allowing themselves to eat is not a sin to another. That's between them and God, not you and God and them. ;)

He didn't come to declare "from now one you can do whatever you want, the law is revoked".
The law is not revoked. It is fulfilled in Love. It's not in the keeping of external commandments, but in a transformed heart that "does no ill to others", that the law is fulfilled. Again, Paul says exactly this in Romans. "Love is the fulfillment of the law". "Love works no ill".

But understand, that things like getting circumcised, while it is a commandment of God in the OT, is not viewed by Christians as necessary in order for you to be "obeying" God. Christianity is about the interiors. The Law of Moses, is about the exteriors. This is very clear and central to the teachings of Jesus, and what makes him superior to the law of Moses. "Make clean the inside of the cup first, then the outside will be clean". I believe this with all my heart to be the Gospel truth.

"I will put my laws into their mind, I will also write them on their heart.
Exactly. The old system of externalized rules and laws will be done away with and replaced by a law of Love that emanates from a transformed heart. Love will guide you from within. Not rules will guide you from without, chiseled in rock as they are. Christian legalism, is taking the Grace of the new testament teachings of Christ, and making them externalized laws chiseled in stone like the tablets of Moses. It fails to grasp the teachings of Jesus about the inside of the cup being the primary focus and source of right actions.

However, this doesn't mean one must follow the law to earn salvation. No one can earn salvation by doing so.
Then there is no need to judge others and tell them they are sinners. Only encourage them to find the truth from God in their hearts, and let them decide. Romans 14 teaches this.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
I understood we were speaking of modern China and Japan that have changed a lot after industrialization, which has developed a lot after big western companies moved their factories to there, because of cheap labor and less environmental restrictions that would make production more expensive and profits smaller.
Okay that makes more sense
My apologies for the misunderstanding

But remember. The only reason Christian nations may have had a hand in such development was through the butchering of the nations they conquered. Which may or may not be against the teachings of Lord Jesus, depending on who you ask
Context is important though. Always
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
It's the fact the media coverage of the election then was a thing.

"It's a fact that _____ was a thing."

What is that even supposed to mean?

That's why i said your post seems to over simplify things because there is more than that just going on.

And perhaps you are looking for depth which simply isn't there?

I suspect the truth, as always, lies somewhere in the middle.

I doubt everyone harping about the media calling the election in 2020 missed where the media coverage, especially of Florida, was just normal stuff done every election despite the trainwreck of Florida that year.

Pre-DeSantis, Florida was a swing state -- the fact that the election was decided there by only a few hundred votes is hardly surprising.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
Okay that makes more sense
My apologies for the misunderstanding

But remember. The only reason Christian nations may have had a hand in such development was through the butchering of the nations they conquered. Which may or may not be against the teachings of Lord Jesus, depending on who you ask
Context is important though. Always

Ok, I agree with the importance of context. And I want to add, I think the reason why western countries became rich is Christianity. What has been done with the riches is not necessary because of the Christianity, it only made it possible. And unfortunately, the riches have been used also in bad ways.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
What it is doing is removing the social stigma associated with homosexuals, which is allowing them to come out of the closet society pushed them into, and join and participate in society as they are....

I think they have always been allowed to be part of the society. Just not allowed to do everything as no one is allowed to do everything.
 

1213

Well-Known Member
...
Do you really think they're not going to do the thing that leads to literally the only reason for their existence?

I have a corporation; its purpose is to make enough money for me to have food and place to live. If I would have those without working, I would not have it. I think the same is with most corporations, they exist to make it possible for people to live, it is the main reason. Not all want to depend on that government gives them everything freely. But this also can lead to situation where someone becomes very rich and for him it may be more about getting richer and more powerful. I think it is wrong to say it is in every case.
 

SomeRandom

Still learning to be wise
Staff member
Premium Member
Ok, I agree with the importance of context. And I want to add, I think the reason why western countries became rich is Christianity. What has been done with the riches is not necessary because of the Christianity, it only made it possible. And unfortunately, the riches have been used also in bad ways.
Well I might quibble some
But I will agree that riches have been used in bad ways, certainly
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
I have a corporation; its purpose is to make enough money for me to have food and place to live. If I would have those without working, I would not have it.

And what do your shareholders and investors think of how you run the corporation?

I think the same is with most corporations, they exist to make it possible for people to live, it is the main reason.

This is amazingly naive; the love of money is the root of all capitalism.

Not all want to depend on that government gives them everything freely. But this also can lead to situation where someone becomes very rich and for him it may be more about getting richer and more powerful. I think it is wrong to say it is in every case.

You have a lot to learn about how the world actually works. True, some people are content to just "get by," but such people do not get involved in corporatism.

And in the end, it doesn't matter how many do -- copious amounts of money make the few far more powerful and influential than the many. And if you can't beat 'em...
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I think they have always been allowed to be part of the society. Just not allowed to do everything as no one is allowed to do everything.
I think you know this is not true. Gays have been shunned and ridiculed. Blamed for hurricanes hitting Texas and killing people by prominent national Christian leaders. Told even by yourself that you would not want your children to be a student in a gay person's classroom, and so forth.

So no, they have not been allowed to be part of society as a homosexual. You get to be openly hetrosexual, but they do not get to be openly gay. This is clearly not equality, and that is why they are speaking out and standing up for themselves. It's just that you call that standing up for themselves to be pushing it on you, which it is not.

I think you know at this point from all our discussion, there is really no defense for this. I trust you've come to see this, even though you may not be quite ready to fully admit this. That's fine. You've be very truthful, and I respect that.
 

Ashoka

श्री कृष्णा शरणं मम
I think they have always been allowed to be part of the society. Just not allowed to do everything as no one is allowed to do everything.

...

You cannot be serious. We've been called low class. We've been called to be put to death. We've been called mentally ill, groomers, pedophiles...we've been blamed for natural disasters and terrorist attacks. We've been thrown out of homes and businesses, fired from jobs, our very existence threatened...

Maybe it's because I stll have the flu and I am more cranky than usual but honestly? Take several seats.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Ok, I agree with the importance of context. And I want to add, I think the reason why western countries became rich is Christianity. What has been done with the riches is not necessary because of the Christianity, it only made it possible. And unfortunately, the riches have been used also in bad ways.
Where did you get that from, as wealth is not determined by religion but by economics?
 

1213

Well-Known Member
History disagrees with you.

How? They have been allowed to be part of society. But society has obviously certain rules. For example, if you murder people, you go to jail (at least usually). Person can be part of society, but it doesn't necessary mean person can do whatever he wants.
 
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