Texas Law Banning Abortion After About Six Weeks Takes Effect

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

Wildswanderer said:
They don't have the right to destroy the body of another deliberately. We arrest people for the exact thing that is done to the unborn.

Not in Texas. It's a "stand your ground" state. You can get killed there for a lot less than being in someone's sexual organs without their consent.

Wildswanderer · Sep 7, 2021

SkepticThinker said:
There's nothing silly about it.
The fact that you'd say such a thing tells me you haven't thought at all about the consequences of your beliefs or of this new law and how it will actually effect peoples' health and lives.

Of course I've thought about it.

Wildswanderer · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Not in Texas. It's a "stand your ground" state. You can get killed there for a lot less than being in someone's sexual organs without their consent.

You are going to compare killing an innocent with killing an intruder? Really?

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

Wildswanderer said:
Wow, and why is that a bad thing?

It's irrational. "The fetus doesn't need it, so the fetus can't be denied it." It makes no sense.

He or she is a human being. Killing him is murder.

Well, since you say the fetus is viable, inducing a live birth wouldn't be "murder," would it?

I mean, your whole premise is that the fetus can survive outside the womb, right?

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

Wildswanderer said:
You are going to compare killing an innocent with killing an intruder? Really?

If the fetus were a person, it would be a literal intruder in the pregnant person's body.

Edit: if it were there without consent, of course.

Wildswanderer · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
It's irrational. "The fetus doesn't need it, so the fetus can't be denied it." It makes no sense.

What you just said doesn't make sense. If I plunge a pair of scissors into a newborns skull I'll be justly sent to prison. But if a " doctor" does it while the baby is still partially inside his mother it's perfectly legal in many places.

Wildswanderer · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
If the fetus were a person, it would be a literal intruder in the pregnant person's body.

Edit: if it were there without consent, of course.

Lol, that's possibly the most ridiculous argument ever.
A baby doesn't choose to be conceived. An intruder chooses to break in to a house.

anna. · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
My ex-wife and I tried to have kids. She had several first-term miscarriages.

On none of those occasions did her Catholic family - or even her priest - respond as if an actual baby had died.

On the other hand, I was having coffee with one of my friends about a month ago or so, and she referred to the miscarriage she'd had after her two children. She asked the doctor if she'd lost a boy or a girl, she wanted to know. She lost a girl, and my friend (a Christian) believes that daughter she couldn't keep is waiting for her in heaven. My mom (a Catholic) had two miscarriages, and she too believed they would be waiting for her in Heaven. My mom is passed away now.

Revoltingest · Sep 7, 2021

Friend of Mara said:
And so the woman looses her bodily autonomy because of this? Should we force bone barrow transplants upon all people in case children need them? Should we donate our kidney's to be put on ice in the case a child needs it?

Women, as well as men, have a right to bodily autonomy.

A friend was anti-abortion, but he found this argument
so compelling that he had no counter argument.
He said it's tough being both a Christian & libertarian.

anna. · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Viability is a very strange place to draw the line on abortion. Effectively, you're arguing that because the fetus could survive outside the womb, it's entitled to remain in the womb.

And yet viability is the term used to define the point to where many states allow abortion.

Look at the first table at this link:

An Overview of Abortion Laws

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

anna b. said:
And yet viability is the term used to define the point to where many states allow abortion.

Look at the first table at this link:

An Overview of Abortion Laws

Not mine. Canada has no legal restrictions on abortion whatsoever, which is how I think it should be.

Practical access to abortion is something we still need to work on, but at least the law is where it should be.

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

anna b. said:
On the other hand, I was having coffee with one of my friends about a month ago or so, and she referred to the miscarriage she'd had after her two children. She asked the doctor if she'd lost a boy or a girl, she wanted to know. She lost a girl, and my friend (a Christian) believes that daughter she couldn't keep is waiting for her in heaven. My mom (a Catholic) had two miscarriages, and she too believed they would be waiting for her in Heaven. My mom is passed away now.

Were either of them offered their church's regular bereavement group? Were either offered the option of a "death" notice in the church bulletin?

In general, people don't treat miscarriages the way they'd treat the death of an actual child.

anna. · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Not mine. Canada has no legal restrictions on abortion whatsoever, which is how I think it should be.

Which means it's legal to abort when they are... viable.

anna. · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Were either of them offered their church's regular bereavement group? Were either offered the option of a "death" notice in the church bulletin?

In general, people don't treat miscarriages the way they'd treat the death of an actual child.

There are such things as miscarriage support groups, did you know that?

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

anna b. said:
There are such things as miscarriage support groups, did you know that?

Yes. They're distinct from the support groups for parents who have lost actual children. Did you know that?

Shakeel · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Viability is a very strange place to draw the line on abortion. Effectively, you're arguing that because the fetus could survive outside the womb, it's entitled to remain in the womb.

It's because when a normal human being with that thing called a heart knows that there is something inside them that they could hold and that could live and grow and develop, she feels happy and wants to see that living being live - others want to see the living being dead.

Shakeel · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Were either of them offered their church's regular bereavement group? Were either offered the option of a "death" notice in the church bulletin?

In general, people don't treat miscarriages the way they'd treat the death of an actual child.

Miscarriage is a loss before week 20. Is a stillborn at 35 weeks not an actual child?

anna. · Sep 7, 2021

9-10ths_Penguin said:
Yes. They're distinct from the support groups for parents who have lost actual children. Did you know that?

Not necessarily, did you know that?

Any time is the right time to attend the Miscarriage, Infant Death, and Stillbirth (MIS) Support group.

9-10ths_Penguin · Sep 7, 2021

anna b. said:
Which means it's legal to abort when they are... viable.

Legal, yes. In practice, quite rare.

metis · Sep 7, 2021

Wildswanderer said:
He or she is a human being. Killing him is murder.

Actually it's not, as "murder" is a legal term that indicates a violation of a law on the killing another human being.

Texas Law Banning Abortion After About Six Weeks Takes Effect

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