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Testing the Spirits
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
Yes and yes.
Bear in mind, "be willing to" and "be required to" are not the same.
Bear in mind, "be willing to" and "be required to" are not the same.
Spirit of Light
Be who ever you want
I do it on a personal level every day. And my faith and belief are also tested every day in RF
How is that a scientific method?
"What seems right to me" has been used for thousands of years. It's never yielded consistent results.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Yes. But how would one do so with the mindset they may find something that contradicts their belief?
dybmh
דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Maybe. But if I believe I have a friend, it's rude to test that belief to see how strong the friendship actually is.
Also, the axiom "Let sleeping dogs lie".
To put it simply, sometmes it's appropriate to test a belief, sometimes it's not.
Brian2
Veteran Member
That was written to Christians and goes on to say how to test what any prophet who comes along might say to them in the light of what the truth is. There is a spirit behind what they say and some prophets are false prophets.
But yes believers should be willing to test their own beliefs.
But if the test is entirely subjective, then it's evidence only to the individual.
Only if they want knowledge.
To stock up on fresh beliefs?
Even failure provides knowledge.
AlexanderG
Active Member
There's an underlying tension, though.
Religion seems to be a behavior that evolved because it conferred an advantage for humans to socialize and have better group cohesion and cooperation. The only drawback was having speculative beliefs about untestable reality, which didn't affect day to day life, and resulted in a small set of social misfits being killed off or ostracized as a result of some of these ad hoc beliefs. (Stoned for working on the Sabbath, etc.) The benefits outweighed the harm, and so this trait was conserved over the long epochs of ignorant humans living in large family groups like tribes and clans.
When you ask whether beliefs should be "put to the test," in fact they are being put to this test and they are succeeding. Religion faith gives most people a sense of community, a social group that they can go to for help, and a sense of hope, meaning and purpose. In this sense, the beliefs are successful and are fulfilling the benefits they promise.
In the modern age, there is a new tension because we can now observe and understand so much more about reality, and clearly demonstrate that most of these religious beliefs are false. This is an epistemological test, however, and doesn't touch on the social test. I think that is why so many people are still religious, but more people are leaving religion because the incidental harms of having ad hoc imaginary beliefs has begun to outweigh the benefits. By quite a bit.
A successful transition will involve abandoning the superstitious mythology, while shifting to new community beliefs that can draw us together to cooperate but are also based on evident reality. I think the political issues we're seeing in the US are a result of this transition, where there is a great deal of lingering resistance as the abandoning of irrational beliefs is accelerating. The GOP has collectively written off demonstrable reality, and given up on passing that "test," while clinging desperately to their increasingly insular communities and their increasingly unjustifiable hope, meaning, and purpose.
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Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
And there is the rub. Most theists do not appear to understand how to properly test one's beliefs. Most make the mistake of going for tests that only result in confirmation bias. What is needed is an honest negative test, and not a positive one that any belief, including atheism could pass.
Bible says:
... test everything. Hold on to what is good, but keep away from every kind of evil.
First Epistle to the Thessalonians 5:21
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
So how do you test your beliefs? Please be specific.
Brian2
Veteran Member
Is that a problem?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Yes, it makes the test of no value. One needs to remember that it is easy to fool oneself into believing what one wants to believe. It means that the test probably does not prove what it was supposed to prove.
It is if you post it for consideration.
Atheists do it for me by questioning everything Bible says.
But, I can do it also. For example, my belief is that it is good to love others as told in the Bible. I can ask from myself, why it is so, is it really correct. And then I can answer to myself, yes, I believe it is good, because then I don’t do anything evil bad to others.
Brian2
Veteran Member
That might depend on the test.
But really faith is an individual thing and so a test for ones own faith would probably be one applied by the individual on him/herself to make sure he/she is still in that faith that they profess.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Faith is rather worthless as a pathway to the truth. Why even bring it up?
