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Terrorism and the Terrorists Mind

Discussion in 'Political Debates' started by LoPar, Jul 7, 2005.

  1. LoPar

    LoPar Member

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    What are the motivational factors that compels a terrorists to kill innocent men women and children?

    (I guess the question could be rephrased; "What are the motivational factors that compels politicians to kill innocent men women and children?")
     
  2. john313

    john313 warrior-poet

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    for the politicians i would say money and greed. for other terrorists i cannot figure it out. do they actually think they are doing the right thing by killing innocent people?
     
  3. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    The terrorists who do the actual bombing are totally brainwashed to do what they are told.
    Just like our soldiers in battle training, it is so they don't have to think in the stress of action but can still operate effectively.
    the really dangerous ones are the leaders who don't count the cost ( much like first war generals.)the don't worry about those that are killed, their own or the enemy.
    It makes it easier if the underlings to believe it is for God, like the terrorists or the Japanese troops in the last war.
    To get any answers to your question you must think about the motives of their leaders. what do they want to achieve what are their goals. to them the methods are unimportant.
    Terry
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    Blessed are the gentle, they shall inherit the land
     
  4. michel

    michel Administrator Emeritus
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    I agree Terry, but what motivates those who do the brainwashing ? - honestly, what is motivating Osama ?:(
     
  5. Mr Spinkles

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    I'm convinced that yes, they do think they are doing the right thing.

    For some, I think it is their religious and political beliefs. For many others, it's greed....terrorist groups often sustain themselves with drug and illegal arms trafficking, which can be lucrative.
     
  6. Lintu

    Lintu Active Member

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    I don't think terrorists think of the people they are actually killing. To them, the act in itself is more important than the lives they take, including their own. It's quite scary.
     
  7. LoPar

    LoPar Member

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    What do the terrorists gain in the end. Assume, for instance, that all foreign troops pull out of Iraq. The terrorists have been killing indiscriminately all people who support the US and Britain including Iraqis. Do they gain control of Iraq, the oil, or the people themselves? (With politicians you know it is for greed...for oil and mideast control. Not withstanding the fact that it is wrong....it is easy to understand.) I fail to see what the terrorist gain. They are fighting for their beliefs for sure and it is evident (suicide bombers) that their beliefs are important. Can their beliefs co-exist with the beliefs of all peoples?
     
  8. Majikthise

    Majikthise Guest

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    Your perspective is fresh and thought provoking, thank you.
    If the terrorist's demands are met, will all their murderous activities stop or will they use their new found influence and resourses to reach out even further? To pull out completely now would be to condemn Iraq to a blood bathe and further loss of human rights that would make our incursion pale by comparison.
     
  9. Mr Spinkles

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    There is no doubt in my mind that the terrorism would continue, until a global Islamic fundamentalist state was established. The "demands" that groups like Al-Quaida make are simply to give the illusion of focus to their cause and to attract recruits; in reality, the groups are self-sustaining criminal organizations that mutate like viruses in order to ensure their survival. If all their demands were really met, the demands would be changed to ensure the continuance of the movement.
     
  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    First of all a group has to want an objective. Either millions, a policy change, or something else. Or, a leader might want this, then the leader must be a great and talented speaker so the masses can be brainwashed into wanting the same goal.
    Then from thier, the terror begins. Some hold hostages, while others kill themeselves while killing others.
    And then the terrorist either win and get what they want, or lose, and are arrested or killed.
     
  11. greatcalgarian

    greatcalgarian Well-Known Member

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    The true aim of the 'middle east' terrorists (or Osama bin Ladin) are to achieve political freedom for middle east. Once all foreign forces are out of the region, then each country in the middle east will hopefully find their own political solution for whatever mess that the West has created there in the past 200 years. The real motive behind is Nationalistic, not religious. Religion is just a tool the nationalist made used of to achieve their aim. Give 'true' democracy and political 'freedom' to the middle east people, and they will not bother to waste their life as suicide bombers going half way around the world to kill themselves in US or UK. They will prefer to build up their homeland, and enjoy some peace and serenity of the desert, have a nice small family, and enjoy simple life. I believe every human will treasure his own life, unless national pride (or tribal pride) overrides this, and he is ready to sacrifice his life for the freedom of his tribe. Of course most people in the west would like to believe that these suicidal terrorists are brainwashed by Muslim religious extremist into doing what they are doing.
     
  12. Mr Spinkles

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    greatcalgarian-- Excellent points, all. I would, however, make some distinctions between groups like Al-Quaida and the more political groups you referred to. With Al-Quaida, and groups like it, what started out as a focused political objective (to get American troops out of Saudi Arabia) became broader, until now it serves as a financier and supplier to anyone who shares their hostility toward the West. In my opinion, people like Osama Bin Laden are "the real deal"; in other words, they aren't using religion as a tool to achieve political ends, but the other way around.

    Well said! I absolutely, 100% agree with you here.
     
  13. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    The motive is power and revenge.
    revenge agains their own countries leaders who have not given way to them, revenge agains the west, who they blame for their own outlaw status and suppression of their religious desires.
    They want power to enable them to impose their views on their own countrymen and to humble the west into accepting them as masters.

    Terry
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    Blessed are the merciful, mercy shall be shown unto them.
     
  14. LoPar

    LoPar Member

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    Thank you for the insight regarding the motivation of Terrorist. All good input.

    This leads me to wonder, is there is anything that can be done to voluntarily or involuntarily to eliminate terrorism? Will we be forced to live under the shadow of violence from radical political individuals or religious zealots for ever?
     
  15. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    History shows that organizations run by Zealots rarely survive for long after their leadership is defeated. The group if it survives at all is usually divided in a power struggle which further weakens it.
    If you want terrorism to go away completely , don't hold your breath. but it could well reduce.

    Terry
    _____________________________
    Blessed are those who bring peace, they shall be children of God
     
  16. Natas

    Natas Active Member

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    Imagine a huge powerful force made up of several countries invaded the USA and wanted to impose their form of government upon us.
    They also hated our (admittedly murderous) leader because he didn't give a sh*t about what they thought.

    Imagine also as part of their campaign to, "Liberate us" they decided to shock and awe us by bombing Washington, D.C. with tons and tons of high explosives. Also, almost every major town in every state was bombed and burned.

    Now it just so happened that your brother, mother, sister, father, or combinations of them were victims of that, "Liberation". Not only that but untold thousands of your fellow citizens were killed and injured. Babies burned and old women and men strewn amidst the rubble.

    Later they captured some who fought back and tortured and humilated them. They then symbolically flushed your religion down the toilet.

    Now this powerful force decided that to protect you they would pick some among you to be an elite new police force to enforce their beliefs among your people. To this end they trained the police in the best tactics to keep, "Your new democracy" in power.

    You and your friends wanted to do something to fight these invaders, but they had superior firepower and you were very poor. You hated these invaders and all they stood for and were willing to do anything to get them out of the good ole USA.

    Underground groups were formed to fight off the invaders and you were glad to have a way to fight them. "This is for my family and my country" you were heard to say. Some among you hated them enough to sacrifice their own life to kill the invaders and traitors as suicide bombers.

    Others like yourself took a more practical approach and determined that the best way to fight them was to work to undermine everything they did, kill as many traitors to your country as you could, and recruit more people to your cause. Hell, maybe you could even send cells to their countries and give them a taste of their own medicine.

    The powerful force controlled most of the media and you were soon labled as a terrorist and religious zealot. You and your countrymen called yourselves freedom fighters.
     
  17. HOGCALLER

    HOGCALLER Active Member

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    LoPar,

    You ask an interesting question in a cogent way. Is there a difference in motivation between the terrorist and the politician?

    No doubt the terrorist and his partisans and the politician and his partisans will vehemently claim a difference but if one listens closely he will find that they both are saying very nearly the same things, sometimes even using the same words, such as “protect,” “defend,” “way of life,” “values,” and many others also. They both regularly claim that what they want most is “peace” and “security” yet they feel motivated to shatter both by fighting; to the casual observer it may not make any sense! But even to the casual observer it is self-evident that the true cause or motivation is not revealed in what they think and certainly not by what they say but only in what they actually do. Regardless of their protestations otherwise their motivation is the same; their actions prove it!

    Unfortunately the terrorist, et al., the politician, et al., and even the vast majority of casual observers, those that refuse to be grouped with either of those groups, do not care to know the true motivation, the actual cause. Again their actions, their repeating of history proves that this is the case and, any minute now, they will again make it clearly evident. The question is, why? What is really behind it?

    Jesus gives us an answer at John 8:43-45. There we find Jesus talking to a mixed group of his followers who did believe and community leaders and their followers who did not believe in him and he addresses these words to the latter saying: “Why is it you do not know what I am speaking? Because you cannot listen to my word. 44 You are from you father the Devil, and you wish to do the desires of your father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, you do not believe me.”

    There may be individuals reading this that are not familiar with the historical references contained in Jesus’ statement, so for their benefit let me explain. Jesus is referring back to the garden of Eden and to the actions of an angel who, up to that point, had been faithful or “in the truth” but then took actions which demonstrated that “he did not stand fast in the truth.” That rebellious angel’s actions of telling lies that led to the death of his younger siblings is how he began his life as the Devil. That is an extremely brief explanation but it should be enough to enable all to understand what Jesus is saying and meaning and so understand the true cause or motivation.

    Genesis 3:1-13 details those actions and starting in verse 14 we find provided for our edification God’s response, judgment, and solution to the situation recorded as the first prophecy of the Bible at Genesis 3:15: “And I shall put enmity between you and the woman and between your seed and her seed. He will bruise you in the head and you will bruise him in the heel.” Depending on which version you use the word “enmity” might be rendered “hatred,” “hostility,” “war,” among others. Please do not run ahead and start jumping to conclusions. The first thing you should know is that with those words God begins, in the order of responsibility, to pass judgment, the death sentence, on all the rebels. The Serpent’s death sentence is to be executed by the “seed” of “the woman.” The next thing you need to know is that “the woman” is not human nor even an individual. So do not jump to the wrong conclusion: God did not “put war” between humans but rather “put war between you [the one behind the serpent, viz. the Devil] and the woman [God’s heavenly organization that mothers the seed(s)] and between your seed and her seed.”

    So did the Devil quietly resign himself to his destiny and go away to sulk? No, not at all! He continued his angry, murderous, and “rule or ruin” ways and set the precedent for all that knowingly or unknowingly follow him. 1 John 3:11-12 describes the result of his next move this way: “For this is the message which you have heard from [the] beginning, that we should have love for one another; 12 not like Cain, who originated with the wicked one and slaughtered his brother.” John is referring to events immediately following the events Jesus referred to and that we find recorded in the fourth chapter of Genesis; only partially quoted here: “And after a time, Cain gave to the Lord an offering of the fruits of the earth. And Abel gave an offering of the young lambs of his flock and of their fat. And the Lord was pleased with Abel's offering; But in Cain and his offering he had no pleasure. And Cain was angry and his face became sad. And the Lord said to Cain, Why are you angry? and why is your face sad? If you do well, will you not have honour? and if you do wrong, sin is waiting at the door, desiring to have you, but do not let it be your master. And Cain said to his brother, Let us go into the field: and when they were in the field, Cain made an attack on his brother Abel and put him to death.” (Genesis 4:4-8) Again Jesus’ words explain and tell us that your terrorist and politician “wish to do the desires of [their] father. That one was a manslayer when he began.” The Devil first caused the death of Abel’s parents and then he induced Cain to kill Abel making Abel the first casualty of that “war” even though he was not a direct party to the “hostility” and was only an innocent bystander. We now begin to clearly see the Devil’s “desires” and that he acts “according to his own disposition” which is angry and murderous and clearly displays a “rule or ruin” mentality. Down through time much but certainly not all war has been religiously motivated just as the first murder was. And who has been behind it all?

    The point of Jesus’ statement that answers your question and the connection to your terrorist and politician becomes crystal clear when we read the following:

    “Then the Devil said [to Jesus], " I will give you the right to rule over all these countries. They will be yours in all their splendor to serve your pleasure. I am in charge of them all and can turn them over to whomever I wish.” (Luke 4:6)

    “The god [the Devil] who rules this world has blinded the minds of unbelievers. They cannot see the light, which is the good news about our glorious Christ, who shows what God is like.” (2Corinthians 4:4)

    “So down the great dragon was hurled, the original serpent, the one called Devil and Satan, who is misleading the entire inhabited earth; he was hurled down to the earth, and his angels were hurled down with him. . . . “Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to you, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time.”” (Revelation 12:9, 12)

    And back again to John 8:42-47 and Jesus’ words: “Jesus said to them: "If God were YOUR Father, YOU would love me, for from God I came forth and am here. Neither have I come of my own initiative at all, but that One sent me forth. 43 Why is it YOU do not know what I am speaking? Because YOU cannot listen to my word. 44 YOU are from YOUR father the Devil, and YOU wish to do the desires of YOUR father. That one was a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]. 45 Because I, on the other hand, tell the truth, YOU do not believe me. 46 Who of YOU convicts me of sin? If I speak truth, why is it YOU do not believe me? 47 He that is from God listens to the sayings of God. This is why YOU do not listen, because YOU are not from God." Your terrorist and politician “cannot listen” or “see the light” because they are allowing themselves to be ‘misled’ or “blinded” and may not yet have realized where their loyalties lie and who it is that is “in charge” of their lives, religions, and countries; their actions prove it!



    .
     
  18. sindbad5

    sindbad5 Active Member

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    there are 2 books talking about the motivations of terrorists and those suicide bombers:
    "dying to win" by Robert Pape
    "Martyrdom" by rona fields
     
  19. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    The same thing motivating Bush. Fanaticism. They both believe they're doing God's will.
     
  20. Melody

    Melody Well-Known Member

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    No, a fanatics beliefs can never co-exist with the beliefs of all people because they believe their way is the only way. Just look at bin Laden and Bush.
     
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