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Tell me about the Devil.

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
I will admit straight up that I have been binge-watching the Netflix television series “Lucifer”.

Among many other things that this show discusses, it portrays Satan/the Devil/Lucifer not in the light of a horribly evil, baby-eating, demonic beast, :eek: but rather as a fallen divine angel and favored son of God.
He does not tell lies and he hates that humans attribute evil to him, when in fact he has spent the last 5000+ years carrying out the job of punishing evil humans for their sins, and basically being a prison warden/guard overseeing the evil and guilty souls of humanity. He describes being God’s punisher/torturer as a job that he did not want and that his father God forced him into. o_O

This made me wonder what the various religious tomes actually have to say about the ruler of hell.
So please, if you know your scripture, whether it be from the Bible or Quran or Torah etc.; what are the attributes, as written in those texts, ascribed to the devil?
Is he simply a divine angel who defied God and committed no other crimes? Is he an angel avatar of God who works directly for God?
Or is he the commonly understood originator of actual evil on earth (if he were to vanish, there would be no more evil or crime or sickness)?

Please cite verse when possible.
Thank you.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
I will admit straight up that I have been binge-watching the Netflix television series “Lucifer”.

Among many other things that this show discusses, it portrays Satan/the Devil/Lucifer not in the light of a horribly evil, baby-eating, demonic beast, :eek: but rather as a fallen divine angel and favored son of God.
He does not tell lies and he hates that humans attribute evil to him, when in fact he has spent the last 5000+ years carrying out the job of punishing evil humans for their sins, and basically being a prison warden/guard overseeing the evil and guilty souls of humanity. He describes being God’s punisher/torturer as a job that he did not want and that his father God forced him into. o_O

This made me wonder what the various religious tomes actually have to say about the ruler of hell.
So please, if you know your scripture, whether it be from the Bible or Quran or Torah etc.; what are the attributes, as written in those texts, ascribed to the devil?
Is he simply a divine angel who defied God and committed no other crimes? Is he an angel avatar of God who works directly for God?
Or is he the commonly understood originator of actual evil on earth (if he were to vanish, there would be no more evil or crime or sickness)?

Please cite verse when possible.
Thank you.
Hannibal ......would be a much better portrait

the devious and scheming ploy all aimed at murder and defilement
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Hannibal ......would be a much better portrait

the devious and scheming ploy all aimed at murder and defilement
Hannibal actually committed murders (and cannibalism). What line of Bible scripture (you are a Christian) says that the Devil killed anyone?
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Hannibal actually committed murders (and cannibalism). What line of Bible scripture (you are a Christian) says that the Devil killed anyone?
well.....I don't call myself a Christian
heaven AND the devil might hear me say it

but yeah......and the devil went forth and killed the children of Job
see Job
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
I will admit straight up that I have been binge-watching the Netflix television series “Lucifer”.

Among many other things that this show discusses, it portrays Satan/the Devil/Lucifer not in the light of a horribly evil, baby-eating, demonic beast, :eek: but rather as a fallen divine angel and favored son of God.
He does not tell lies and he hates that humans attribute evil to him, when in fact he has spent the last 5000+ years carrying out the job of punishing evil humans for their sins, and basically being a prison warden/guard overseeing the evil and guilty souls of humanity. He describes being God’s punisher/torturer as a job that he did not want and that his father God forced him into. o_O

This made me wonder what the various religious tomes actually have to say about the ruler of hell.
So please, if you know your scripture, whether it be from the Bible or Quran or Torah etc.; what are the attributes, as written in those texts, ascribed to the devil?
Is he simply a divine angel who defied God and committed no other crimes? Is he an angel avatar of God who works directly for God?
Or is he the commonly understood originator of actual evil on earth (if he were to vanish, there would be no more evil or crime or sickness)?

Please cite verse when possible.
Thank you.

Other than in Genesis(If you believe the Snake is the Devil) and the Book of Revelations, Satan comes across as an advocate for God. The ultimate tester. If you pass his test you go to heaven If you fail you go to hell. The book of Job makes this case best where as God and the Devil are more akin to friends than enemies.
 

74x12

Well-Known Member
I will admit straight up that I have been binge-watching the Netflix television series “Lucifer”.

Among many other things that this show discusses, it portrays Satan/the Devil/Lucifer not in the light of a horribly evil, baby-eating, demonic beast, :eek: but rather as a fallen divine angel and favored son of God.
He does not tell lies and he hates that humans attribute evil to him, when in fact he has spent the last 5000+ years carrying out the job of punishing evil humans for their sins, and basically being a prison warden/guard overseeing the evil and guilty souls of humanity. He describes being God’s punisher/torturer as a job that he did not want and that his father God forced him into. o_O

This made me wonder what the various religious tomes actually have to say about the ruler of hell.
So please, if you know your scripture, whether it be from the Bible or Quran or Torah etc.; what are the attributes, as written in those texts, ascribed to the devil?
Is he simply a divine angel who defied God and committed no other crimes? Is he an angel avatar of God who works directly for God?
Or is he the commonly understood originator of actual evil on earth (if he were to vanish, there would be no more evil or crime or sickness)?

Please cite verse when possible.
Thank you.
Yes, the show does get some things right. Satan doesn't really appear to people as a red devil with horns and a tail. That is a form he might resort to in order to intimidate; but generally he appears as an attractive young man in order to seduce people to doing his will. He does act very nice to people also; but again this is in order to seduce them. Satan prefers the subtle kind of violence. If he can trick someone into killing themselves then he doesn't need to do it himself and it's more pleasing to his nature. You should think of him as the ultimate con-artist. Because he enjoys the con. You could say that open outright violence is too boring for him to enjoy as much. I guess after you've killed so many people it gets boring.

However, the show Lucifer is more how Satan would like people to think of him; rather than how he really is.

According to the Bible satan is "transformed" into an angel of light in order to deceive people. The name lucifer means "light bearer" and so this is why I believe satan prefers to be called lucifer even though it's not his original name.

Jesus Christ called satan the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning. Jesus also implied satan's desire is to "kill, steal and destroy". Elsewhere we see that satan goes about "like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour". This "roaring" is intimidation and yes he does like to use fear as well as seduction.

Finally, the book of revelation paints a picture of satan as being very angry because he knows he has only a limited amount of time. So he wants to destroy as many people as possible before his time is up.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Other than in Genesis(If you believe the Snake is the Devil) and the Book of Revelations, Satan comes across as an advocate for God. The ultimate tester. If you pass his test you go to heaven If you fail you go to hell. The book of Job makes this case best where as God and the Devil are more akin to friends than enemies.
I posted something years ago.....to that effect

picture your Best Friend across the street
talking to Someone almost as big

they don't seem to like each other

a moment passes and then.....
that someone comes across the street and with his eye on you
and as soon as he can take hold.....he starts kicking your ***
brutally

your Best Friend
doesn't bother to even come near

you might call for help

no response
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic ☿
Premium Member
Lucifer is not Satan. Would the scriptures talk about "when the day dawns and Satan rises in your heart?"
2 Peter 1:19-21 Latin Vulgate
19 Et habemus firmiorem propheticum sermonem: cui benefacitis attendentes quasi lucernae lucenti in caliginoso loco donec dies elucescat, et lucifer oriatur in cordibus vestris:

20 hoc primum intelligentes quod omnis prophetia Scripturae propria interpretatione non fit.

21 Non enim voluntate humana allata est aliquando prophetia: sed Spiritu Sancto inspirati, locuti sunt sancti Dei homines.

New International Version English:
19 We also have the prophetic message as something completely reliable, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts. 20 Above all, you must understand that no prophecy of Scripture came about by the prophet’s own interpretation of things. 21 For prophecy never had its origin in the human will, but prophets, though human, spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.
2 Peter 1 VULGATE;NIV - Simon Petrus, servus et apostolus Jesu - Bible Gateway
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
btw.....as I read Genesis....

serpent is NOT a description of form

more to CHARACTER
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
I'll quote directly: Satan

"Good as well as evil are impressional products of the evolutionary momentum. They come into conflict with each other, and as such are to be recognised as separate groups of forces. Satan, Lucifer, Beelzebub, each in his own way symbolises the forces of evil. However, it is a mistake to think that evil is an irreducible active force by itself. Both good and evil are abstractions, and have to be seen in their true perspective as inevitable phases in the subhuman and human evolution.

"Evil is the lingering relic of earlier good. Some impressional tendencies, which were necessary and inevitable at a particular phase, are carried over to the higher phase of evolution, and they persist in their existence due to inertia. They hinder harmonious functioning in the new context, and appear as evil.
...
"Everything happens according to divine will, and it is a mistake to think that God has a rival in the form of a devil. Accentuation of the forces for good is necessary for releasing divine life in its fulness. But evil itself often plays an important part in accentuating the forces for good, and it becomes an inevitable shadow or counterpart of the good..."
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
I found this link with “What does the Bible have to say about Satan”. It contains 100 times the Devil is referenced in the Bible. Allthough many times it is a repetition.

Reading through and following the links to scriptures when it is not self-evident, seems to portray the Devil as a trickster who is always looking to fool people into straying from faith in God. Ready to snatch away a piece or all of one’s soul at a momentks notice.
Certainly he is accused of lying and deceiving people into following their whims and evil desires, thus straying from God’s will. Also he is a player in the divine review of souls, most particularly as a prosecuting attorney/accuser.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
From my faith: Sanathana Dharma, as explained by my Master:
This made me wonder what the various religious tomes actually have to say about the ruler of hell.
There are four Fs that you will have to fix before your attention: (1) follow the master, (2) face the devil, (3) fight to the end, and (4) finish at the goal.

Follow the master means observe righteousness. Face the devil means overcome the temptations that beset you when you try to earn wealth or the wherewithal to live in comfort. Fight to the end means struggle ceaselessly; wage war against the six enemies that are led by lust. And, finally, finish at the goal means do not stop until the goal of moksha (liberation from ignorance and delusion) is reached.

The Fs are fundamental for the pursuit of the four Purusharthas (goals of human life): dharma, artha, kama, and moksha (righteousness, wealth, desire, and liberation). I shall be ever with you, wherever you are, guarding you and guiding you. March on; have no fear.
 

Daemon Sophic

Avatar in flux
Yes, the show does get some things right. Satan doesn't really appear to people as a red devil with horns and a tail. That is a form he might resort to in order to intimidate; but generally he appears as an attractive young man in order to seduce people to doing his will. He does act very nice to people also; but again this is in order to seduce them. Satan prefers the subtle kind of violence. If he can trick someone into killing themselves then he doesn't need to do it himself and it's more pleasing to his nature. You should think of him as the ultimate con-artist. Because he enjoys the con. You could say that open outright violence is too boring for him to enjoy as much. I guess after you've killed so many people it gets boring.

However, the show Lucifer is more how Satan would like people to think of him; rather than how he really is.

According to the Bible satan is "transformed" into an angel of light in order to deceive people. The name lucifer means "light bearer" and so this is why I believe satan prefers to be called lucifer even though it's not his original name.

Jesus Christ called satan the father of lies and a murderer from the beginning. Jesus also implied satan's desire is to "kill, steal and destroy". Elsewhere we see that satan goes about "like a roaring lion seeking whom he may devour". This "roaring" is intimidation and yes he does like to use fear as well as seduction.

Finally, the book of revelation paints a picture of satan as being very angry because he knows he has only a limited amount of time. So he wants to destroy as many people as possible before his time is up.
Yes. I saw that line about being a murderer from the beginning, but I don’t get that. Who did he kill?

Also yes, he is never described as this....
9fdf455fea82f8fb86385aa5248a50c6@2x.jpg

This is an image that seems to have cropped up in ~14th century artwork.

Along this line Biblical verse does not seem to attribute wings to angels at all either. :shrug:
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
In Judaism, there are 2 beings which correlate to the devil.

One is The Satan who tempts the inborn animalistic inclination in people to test them. Then it acts as the prosecutor of the errant soul after death.

The other is named Belial. They are the angry horde who executes punishment and cleanses the soul before it returns to Godliness or is reincarnated.

Satan:
Satan - Wikipedia
Psalms 109 ( specifically verse 6 )

Evil punishing horde:
Belial - Wikipedia
Psalms 18 ( specifically verse 5 )
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
In Judaism, there are 2 beings which correlate to the devil.

One is The Satan who tempts the inborn animalistic inclination in people to test them. Then it acts as the prosecutor of the errant soul after death.

The other is named Belial. They are the angry horde who executes punishment and cleanses the soul before it returns to Godliness or is reincarnated.
Nice, thank you for sharing about "devil" in Judaism. Useful concepts, I can relate to

Also good to know Judaism believes in reincarnation, I did not know that
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Regarding whether or not Satan ( the accuser ) can lie...

a fallen divine angel and favored son of God.
He does not tell lies
a trickster who is always looking to fool people into straying from faith in God. Ready to snatch away a piece or all of one’s soul at a momentks notice.
Certainly he is accused of lying and deceiving people

From my perspective, Satan cannot lie. However lying is not the same as fooling someone or deceiving them.

This is where the serpent in the creation story comes into play. The serpent didn't lie.

Genesis 3:
Verse 1: The serpent asks Eve: Is it true you can't eat from any tree.
Verse 2 and 3: Eve replies only the tree of knowledge is off limits or else I will die.

In verse 4, the serpent corrects Eve. If you look back at the original commandment ( Genesis 2:17 ); G-d tells Adam eating from the tree results in "certain death". Eve when she repeats the commandment omits the word "certain". Th serpent corrects her. "No, certain death". However in Hebrew the words "No, certain death" can also be understood as "Not certain death". The words in Hebrew in the verse can mean two different things. The word "Lo" in Hebrew can be either "no" or "not".

This means that the serpent in one sentence was saying two things. The serpent was speaking in double-speak and according to the story, Eve was tempted by the appearance of the fruit on the forbidden tree and understood the snakes correction as "Not certainly die" instead of "No, certainly die" even though it's common sense that the commandment from 2:17 obviously forbids it and convinces Adam to eat it too.

So... What did the serpent do? It didn't lie, but it beguiled her. Then Eve used this same reasoning to beguile Adam.

This introduces a whole host of problems for G-d, as one can imagine. Now commandments can be interpreted in multiple ways, and humans learned how to find loopholes in the law. According to the story, it comes from the most cunning of the beasts of the field, the prosecutor, the serpent, The Satan. Who taught it to Eve, who in turn taught it to Adam.

And even today, how many problems are caused by this? Politicians using double-speak and subtext to dog-whistle their most extreme supporters is the most obvious. But also arguments between spouses, or between children and parents. Even legal battles. They all contain this idea that one sentence can mean more than one thing without the statement being false.

That is how Satan works, in my opinion. It's the little inner voice trying to convince us that it's ok to steal, if it's from the rich. It's ok to run thru a red light, if no one is watching. It's ok to exaggerate on a resume, everyone does it.

This inner voice, though, is relatively weak. For most, it's easy to ignore. For others who are inclined towards selfishness, the temptation is overwhelming. But the temptation is real. The inner voice is speaking truth, but not the whole truth. It uses this grey area between truth and lies where a simple moral rule ( don't eat the forbidden fruit, aka don't steal ) can be bent into something which is contrary to the intended message. That's The Satan. Satan doesn't lie. Satan **fools** and deceives.
 
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MonkeyFire

Well-Known Member
Lucifer and satan are two entirely different beings. Lucifer the angel of light is the embodiment of omnsicence and must be redeemed by God. The devil is hatred and he is the keeper of hell which is indeed a prison. Adam and Eve were "tempted" by satan with knowledge of good and evil, that ancient serpent (seven headed dragon).
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
Also good to know Judaism believes in reincarnation, I did not know that

Actually, it would be more accurate to state that within Judaism there are groups and individuals who believe in reincarnation.
 

stvdv

Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
Actually, it would be more accurate to state that within Judaism there are groups and individuals who believe in reincarnation.
Aha, thank you for this specification. It's nice to hear, that they have room for that, within Judaism.
 

ajay0

Well-Known Member
Eastern philosophy considers the mind to be Maya or the Devil/Satan as taught in the Abrahamic religions.

The following sayings will shed light on the subject....

"The mind is maya. Reality lies beyond the mind. So long as the mind functions there is duality, maya, etc. Once it is transcended the Reality shines forth. Although it is said to shine forth Self-effulgence is the Self." - Ramana Maharshi


Whatever harm an enemy may do to an enemy, or a hater to a hater, an ill-directed mind inflicts on oneself a greater harm. Neither mother, father, nor any other relative can do one greater good than one’s own well-directed mind. - Buddha ( Dhammapada 42-43)

For him who has conquered the mind, the mind is the best of friends; but for one who has failed to do so, his mind will remain the greatest enemy. Krishna ( BG: 6.6)




Obviously all vices such as lust, hatred, greed, inordinate attachments, egoism, jealousy have their sources in strong desires like cravings or aversions, and these vices in turn results in crimes like rape, murder, theft and so on.

Since these desires arise in the mind due to past conditioning, spiritual work lies in understanding the psychology of the mind and its mastery. This ensures that the mind becomes an obedient servant that enables us to perform our duties and adhere to virtuous conduct for peace and harmony, rather than a tyrannical master that forces us to override virtuous conduct and behavior to fulfill its cravings for pleasure.
 
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