Teaching a faith in Iran vs Australia

[danieldemol]

It seems to me as though in Iran, the Shia are free to preach their religion including polemics against other religions from the airwaves and as publicly as they please. By comparison teaching another religion such as the Baha'i Faith, seems to land one in prison for unspecified periods of time.

By comparison in Australia we have a little "No doorknockers" sign which if displayed legally prevents all religious door knockers or other salespersons without discrimination from encroaching upon the private property of the displayer of the sign even for the sake of preaching a religion. This leaves it up to the individual to choose whether or not they wish to have people come to their home uninvited to discuss religion with them.

So which is a better system and why?

 

[Vinayaka]

It seems to me as though in Iran, the Shia are free to preach their religion including polemics against other religions from the airwaves and as publicly as they please. By comparison teaching another religion such as the Baha'i Faith, seems to land one in prison for unspecified periods of time.

By comparison in Australia we have a little "No doorknockers" sign which if displayed legally prevents all religious door knockers or other salespersons without discrimination from encroaching upon the private property of the displayer of the sign even for the sake of preaching a religion. This leaves it up to the individual to choose whether or not they wish to have people come to their home uninvited to discuss religion with them.

So which is a better system and why?

There are probably 'other' systems, that are somewhat in between. But surely Australia is better. Iran is a repressive regime. A look at Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International 2017 country reports will demonstrate that. Australia has way fewer human rights violations than Iran. Still there are 200 other countries.

But I am curious about the 'no doorknocker' sign, as it's the first I've heard of it in law. What happens if someone breaks that law? Can you report them? If so, what is the charge, or fine? Frankly, I wish we had such a law here. I have such a sign, but occasionally people ignore it.

 

[Vinayaka]

This place sounds worse than Iran. World Report 2018: Rights Trends in Turkmenistan

 

[Shad]

But I am curious about the 'no doorknocker' sign, as it's the first I've heard of it in law. What happens if someone breaks that law? Can you report them? If so, what is the charge, or fine? Frankly, I wish we had such a law here. I have such a sign, but occasionally people ignore it.

Most likely under trespassing laws. The sign would fall under no-solicitation but as a specific. The property owner is stating a reason why someone would be considered a trespasser. This is a preemptive denial of permission to enter a property. If one were to ignore the sign the property owner, or representative, would request the trespassing party to leave. If the party didn't leave the cops would become involved. The sign itself is merely a warning like "no trespassing" signs.

 

[Shad]

It seems to me as though in Iran, the Shia are free to preach their religion including polemics against other religions from the airwaves and as publicly as they please. By comparison teaching another religion such as the Baha'i Faith, seems to land one in prison for unspecified periods of time.

By comparison in Australia we have a little "No doorknockers" sign which if displayed legally prevents all religious door knockers or other salespersons without discrimination from encroaching upon the private property of the displayer of the sign even for the sake of preaching a religion. This leaves it up to the individual to choose whether or not they wish to have people come to their home uninvited to discuss religion with them.

So which is a better system and why?

The later as it covers freedom of association and property rights while the former is Islamic supremacy under a tyrannical government

 

[danieldemol]

There are probably 'other' systems, that are somewhat in between. But surely Australia is better. Iran is a repressive regime. A look at Human Rights Watch or Amnesty International 2017 country reports will demonstrate that. Australia has way fewer human rights violations than Iran. Still there are 200 other countries.

But I am curious about the 'no doorknocker' sign, as it's the first I've heard of it in law. What happens if someone breaks that law? Can you report them? If so, what is the charge, or fine? Frankly, I wish we had such a law here. I have such a sign, but occasionally people ignore it.

In Australia the federal court has upheld fines for companies that disobey the no doorknocking signs of 1million Australian dollars, I don’t know how they would treat an individual vs an organisation

 

[Vinayaka]

In Australia the federal court has upheld fines for companies that disobey the no doorknocking signs of 1million Australian dollars, I don’t know how they would treat an individual vs an organisation

Thanks Daniel. I did my research. Apparently the sign is intended for commerce, and doesn't apply to charities or to religions. But you still have the right to ask them to leave.

Door to door - do not knock sign

 

[Dawnofhope]

It seems to me as though in Iran, the Shia are free to preach their religion including polemics against other religions from the airwaves and as publicly as they please. By comparison teaching another religion such as the Baha'i Faith, seems to land one in prison for unspecified periods of time.

By comparison in Australia we have a little "No doorknockers" sign which if displayed legally prevents all religious door knockers or other salespersons without discrimination from encroaching upon the private property of the displayer of the sign even for the sake of preaching a religion. This leaves it up to the individual to choose whether or not they wish to have people come to their home uninvited to discuss religion with them.

So which is a better system and why?

I just arrived in Brisbane, Australia yesterday on holiday with the family... not that I’m planning on going door to door in my neighbourhood telling people about the Baha’i Faith. I can’t imagine I’ll be arrested if anyone finds out I’m a Baha’i or if I say something that’s misconstrued as teaching.

I quite like my Western freedoms, especially when it comes to religious and political beliefs.

I know a Muslim woman who became a Baha’i in Iran recently but can’t let people know as she may be convicted of apostasy which could carry the death penalty.

 

[Unguru]

I invite the atheists here to speak up here, about "teaching faith" at all.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

It seems to me as though in Iran, the Shia are free to preach their religion including polemics against other religions from the airwaves and as publicly as they please. By comparison teaching another religion such as the Baha'i Faith, seems to land one in prison for unspecified periods of time.

By comparison in Australia we have a little "No doorknockers" sign which if displayed legally prevents all religious door knockers or other salespersons without discrimination from encroaching upon the private property of the displayer of the sign even for the sake of preaching a religion. This leaves it up to the individual to choose whether or not they wish to have people come to their home uninvited to discuss religion with them.

So which is a better system and why?

The later as it covers freedom of association and property rights while the former is Islamic supremacy under a tyrannical government

Yeah, it's not even a competition. Australia's system is much more civilised than Iran's.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

I know a Muslim woman who became a Baha’i in Iran recently but can’t let people know as she may be convicted of apostasy which could carry the death penalty.

I hope she's able to escape to a less repressive, more civilised country where she can practice her faith freely.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I hope she's able to escape to a less repressive, more civilised country.

Its not an option for her. She will have to pretend to be Muslim (not too hard as Baha’is still believe in Muhammad and the Quran) while in her heart believing in Bahá’u’lláh as well.

 

[LuisDantas]

Its not an option for her. She will have to pretend to be Muslim (not too hard as Baha’is still believe in Muhammad and the Quran) while in her heart believing in Bahá’u’lláh as well.

Almost like a Druse, from what I hear.

 

[LuisDantas]

I invite the atheists here to speak up here, about "teaching faith" at all.

It is a legitimate enough activity, and I somewhat welcome it.

I do however think that many groups have entirely unreasonable expectations about how much privilege they should have to engage on it.

One of several examples of (pseudo?-)religious groups expecting privilege where it is not earned.

 

[Milton Platt]

Most likely under trespassing laws. The sign would fall under no-solicitation but as a specific. The property owner is stating a reason why someone would be considered a trespasser. This is a preemptive denial of permission to enter a property. If one were to ignore the sign the property owner, or representative, would request the trespassing party to leave. If the party didn't leave the cops would become involved. The sign itself is merely a warning like "no trespassing" signs.

So the sign doesn't do anything but provide a warning......the person still has to ask the offending party to leave. Seems like a waste of signage. That means that the signs can be effectively ignored.

 

[Vinayaka]

So the sign doesn't do anything but provide a warning......the person still has to ask the offending party to leave. Seems like a waste of signage. That means that the signs can be effectively ignored.

My sign cut the knocks by 90% or so. It does work. Not 100% but better than naught.

 

[Milton Platt]

I invite the atheists here to speak up here, about "teaching faith" at all.

I think the thread is about knocking on doors to do it.......not the act of sharing a belief.
One does have to wonder why there is the compulsion of some Christian sects in the U.S. to knock on doors. Do they believe there are people in this country who have never heard of Christianity?

 

[Milton Platt]

My sign cut the knocks by 90% or so. It does work. Not 100% but better than naught.

Cool, at least most of the potential "door knockers" have the decency to honour your wishes. The rest deserve a door-slam.

 

[Marcion]

I know a Muslim woman who became a Baha’i in Iran recently but can’t let people know as she may be convicted of apostasy which could carry the death penalty.

This is not only a problem in Iran, in my European home town the mayor has recently been asked to look into the better protection of Muslims who have become Christian. Apparently there are regular threats from their Muslim relatives and other Muslims.

 

[Shad]

So the sign doesn't do anything but provide a warning......the person still has to ask the offending party to leave. Seems like a waste of signage. That means that the signs can be effectively ignored.

Most trespassing laws prevent the owner from taking physical action thus a request followed by the police being called is required.

Ignoring a sign can carry more penalties and provide grounds for a libel lawsuit by the property owner in civil court. The reason is that ignoring the sign shows intent to trespass. Depending on area ignoring the sign is a criminal charge which can result in jail time or a fine as a misdemeanor via trespassing laws.

States like Cali have laws regarding solicitation itself. One must request a permit which has regulations regarding conduct. Ignoring a solicitation and/or trespassing sign is a violation of regulations which will lead to the loss of the permit and a suit by the state.