Teacher: Christian faith prohibits treating transgendered students with respect and dignity

[YmirGF]

Except, the "teacher" is an Employee of the State-- because it's Public Education. This means, he must comply with State Guidelines with respect to Free Speech-- because there really is no such thing as Unlimited Free Speech..

This is why I did my 180 from my initial post. The teacher was OBVIOUSLY well aware of the guidelines handed down from the Department of Education. In my view, he then, in a predatory fashion, zeroed in on the young person directly involved and made his rather pathetic stand. The teacher was fired for insubordination and rightly so (I see now). (Edit: The decision to terminate was unanimous, I might add.)

 

[shmogie]

Right. Because "free speech" includes the right to force your ugly religious bigotry onto any and every person you meet-- never mind THEIR rights. Sure, sure.

Except, the "teacher" is an Employee of the State-- because it's Public Education. This means, he must comply with State Guidelines with respect to Free Speech-- because there really is no such thing as Unlimited Free Speech.

You cannot, for example, falsely yell "FIRE" in a crowded theater, no matter you want to video a "Performance Art Piece On Frightened Mobs Trampling Each Other To Death".

He said nothing. How can saying nothing be forcing religious beliefs on someone ? Did you read the article ? It wasn´t what he said that upset them, it was what he didn´t say.

In NO WAY was anyone treated with disrespect. They wanted to FORCE him to say something he didn´t want to say.

You know ¨ve haf vays ob making you talk, heil !¨

 

[Curious George]

Incidentally, I have a few opinions that I don't feel like sharing knowing what the blowback would be. I don't feel particularly oppressed by that. It's just the rules of the game

I think most people have these. I find this frustrating sometimes because people too often obscure what they really mean.

I understand that perspective while one is employed or even in some social settings. But when someone wants to have an honest dialogue this perspective is a little troubling. Many spend so much time posturing while pretending to search for Truth.

How can we have a legitimate discussion about beliefs, if people are sugar coating their actual beliefs? I think such is the case in this instance. The suggestion that calling the child him or he "would be a lie" is ridiculous.

 

[shmogie]

I think most people have these. I find this frustrating sometimes because people too often obscure what they really mean.

I understand that perspective while one is employed or even in some social settings. But when someone wants to have an honest dialogue this perspective is a little troubling. Many spend so much time posturing while pretending to search for Truth.

How can we have a legitimate discussion about beliefs, if people are sugar coating their actual beliefs? I think such is the case in this instance. The suggestion that calling the child him or he "would be a lie" is ridiculous.

Is the child REALLY A HE OR A HIM ?

 

[Father Heathen]

It is a bit of an object lesson for anyone hell bent on standing up for their principles. Those days are over, unless of course, your principles are in alignment with political correct doctrine, then you can do whatever you like.

Come on now. You're smarter than this. Why should their arbitrary, superstitous "principles" permit them to defy their employer's policies and discriminate against students (especially at a *public* school. Keep that kooky spooky bull**** at home and do your damn job.)
If it were a vegan who got fired by McDonald's for refusing to serve burgers, would you have responded with a similar statement? I doubt it.

 

[YmirGF]

Come on now. You're smarter than this. Why should their arbitrary, superstitous "principles" permit them to defy their employer's policies and discriminate against students (especially at a *public* school. Keep that kooky spooky bull**** at home and do your damn job.)
If it we're a vegan who got fired by McDonald's for refusing to serve burgers, would you have responded with a similar statement? I doubt it.

Hehe. Keep reading. It gets better! I hope you approve of my final analysis.

 

[Father Heathen]

and if you don't play along you can be drummed out of your job of seven years. Yeah, that ought to help build trust and respect. It's not about respect. No one is being particularly respectful of the teachers opinions and beliefs. His ideas DO NOT MATTER. Only the transgender person's feelings matter. If this is equity. It sucks.

The teachers are welcomed to their opinions and beliefs, but the classroom isn't the platform for them. Would you think it acceptable for a racist teacher to use racial slurs in the classroom? Or for a creationist to refuse to teach evolution in a science class? What about their principles?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Your thoughts on the statement that his "Christian faith prohibited him from treat[ing] the student with respect and dignity."

Sounds like it's accurate.

 

[Subduction Zone]

How far does "accomodate them in their beliefs" go ?

Should one call a car a stagecoach because someone believes it is ? Or call a black student "Zulu Chief" because he believes he is one ?

So, the demand was to call a girl, a girl when you taught her before, a boy, a he, even though you know she is a she ?

Their beef was about words HE DID NOT USE, not about words he used.,

So, if you communicate with a girl who thinks she is a boy, and use no pronouns like he or she, THAT IS WRONG ?

One can be fired for what they didn't say ?

No, the words weren't the issue at all, once again it was a demand to embrace the idea that a female at birth can become a male. It is a demand to conform to a concept and acknowledge it as true, when it is scientifically impossible.

Groupthink cannot change the physical laws of the universe, no matter how hard it tries, and believes it has.

That can be rather difficult in a French class when the words one uses for another indicates their gender.

 

[Curious George]

Is the child REALLY A HE OR A HIM ?

I assume the child was enrolled as a he or him. Or at least the admin had made an addendum. Does anything else really matter? If a kid's name says John on the roster, and the kid wishes to be called by John, it is not the teachers responsibility to tale it upon himself to call the kid by a name other than that, most especially when the kid has specifically stated he does not want to be referred to by anything else.

 

[Father Heathen]

Nobody should be forced to say anything they don't want to say.

Unless it's part of the job they're paid to do. Free speech doesn't apply to your employer's policies.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Unless it's part of the job they're paid to do. Free speech doesn't apply to your employer's policies.

Why is it so difficult for people to understand that "freedom of speech" refers to political speech and not during the time that someone is at work. When someone voluntarily takes on a job he is limiting his speech during his time at work.

 

[Curious George]

Unless it's part of the job they're paid to do. Free speech doesn't apply to your employer's policies.

Yes and no. Teachers do not waive all of their first ammendment protection.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Unless it's part of the job they're paid to do. Free speech doesn't apply to your employer's policies.

Like taking a knee.

 

[shmogie]

I assume the child was enrolled as a he or him. Or at least the admin had made an addendum. Does anything else really matter? If a kid's name says John on the roster, and the kid wishes to be called by John, it is not the teachers responsibility to tale it upon himself to call the kid by a name other than that, most especially when the kid has specifically stated he does not want to be referred to by anything else.

Did you read the OP ? The issue was what the teacher didn´t use he/her pronouns. She wanted to be referred to as he/him. He neither said he/him, she/her. The teacher had taught the student previously when she was a girl, she demanded he call her he/him. He was doing his best to avoid conflict with this girl now acting as a boy, it was not enough, it was demanded he say what he knew wasn´t true.

How much do we sacrifice truth to emotion or to mollify feelings ?

 

[Curious George]

Like taking a knee.

Yes

 

[Curious George]

Did you read the OP ? The issue was what the teacher didn´t use he/her pronouns. She wanted to be referred to as he/him. He neither said he/him, she/her. The teacher had taught the student previously when she was a girl, she demanded he call her he/him. He was doing his best to avoid conflict with this girl now acting as a boy, it was not enough, it was demanded he say what he knew wasn´t true.

How much do we sacrifice truth to emotion or to mollify feelings ?

The teacher refused to comply. The teacher was let go. It seems fitting. The teacher was doing his best to single out the student while taking a stand against recognizing transgender youth. The teacher flat out refused to use he/him pronouns. Now if I am your boss and I come to you saying that there is an issue and you take a stand refusing to comply, I will have no issue letting you go.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

He deserved to be fired. "Christian faith" requires nothing of the sort.

There are as many versions of "Christian faith" as there are Christians. I don't have any reason to think that the teacher is being insincere.

That being said, his faith is no excuse.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Did you read the OP ? The issue was what the teacher didn´t use he/her pronouns. She wanted to be referred to as he/him. He neither said he/him, she/her. The teacher had taught the student previously when she was a girl, she demanded he call her he/him. He was doing his best to avoid conflict with this girl now acting as a boy, it was not enough, it was demanded he say what he knew wasn´t true.

How much do we sacrifice truth to emotion or to mollify feelings ?

I did not get that from the linked article. Can you support that claim with an appropriate quote?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Like taking a knee.

The difference, of course (edit: one difference of several), is that antagonizing a kid goes directly against the core duties of a teacher. A football player taking a knee does not go against the core duties of a football player.