Tat Tvam Asi

[Sirona]

Namaste,

I read the Krsna Book by Prabhupada, chapter 85, where he says:

The Vedic version tat tvam asi, “Thou art the same,” means not that everyone is God but that everyone is qualitatively of the same nature as God.

I don’t know much about Hinduism but I know that tat tvam asi just means “Thou art that”, and that “the same” was added to make it look like it confirms achintya bheda abheda. I also know that most Upanishads are older than achintya bheda abheda. If I stick to the original meaning of tat tvam asi then it confirms that the Self is God.

Please discuss.

 

[Shantanu]

Namaste,

I read the Krsna Book by Prabhupada, chapter 85, where he says:

The Vedic version tat tvam asi, “Thou art the same,” means not that everyone is God but that everyone is qualitatively of the same nature as God.

I don’t know much about Hinduism but I know that tat tvam asi just means “Thou art that”, and that “the same” was added to make it look like it confirms achintya bheda abheda. I also know that most Upanishads are older than achintya bheda abheda. If I stick to the original meaning of tat tvam asi then it confirms that the Self is God.

Please discuss.

Tat Tvam Asi is atheistic acknowledgement that a jiva (human being) is an inert entity (nirguna) that is called Brahman. For the theist, who has surrendered to God, God guides through the phenomenon of acintya bhed abheda tatva or simultaneous oneness and separateness. A person has to live like a human being with human needs while paying devotional reverence to God within himself or herself. For the theist therefore tat tvam asi is erroneous interpretation that the Self is God. Paramatma Sri Krishna is distinct from the individual but can take over the reigns of the individual's life if God chooses.

 

[Terese]

Namaste,

I read the Krsna Book by Prabhupada, chapter 85, where he says:

The Vedic version tat tvam asi, “Thou art the same,” means not that everyone is God but that everyone is qualitatively of the same nature as God.

I don’t know much about Hinduism but I know that tat tvam asi just means “Thou art that”, and that “the same” was added to make it look like it confirms achintya bheda abheda. I also know that most Upanishads are older than achintya bheda abheda. If I stick to the original meaning of tat tvam asi then it confirms that the Self is God.

Please discuss.

Pranam, Sirona. Yes, tat tvam asi means "thou art that". As there are many schools, there are different interpretations. Those of the Chaitanya sampradaya will see no different in "thou art that" and "thou art the same". The atma that resides in all beings is the energy of the Supreme Lord, we are the same in that we possess the same quality as Him but not quantity. This does not contradict the statement of tat tvam asi. For example, a particle of gold is still considered gold, but is also different in that it is a particle. Another example is that the sun and its rays are the same in quality but not of quantity. It is an inconceivable oneness and difference, as Chaitanya describes. It cannot be understood by just mulling over logic.

The Upanishads have quotes that propound both oneness and difference. For example,

In Oneness: Chandogya Upanishad 3.14.1: sarva khalv idam brahma “Everything, both matter and spirit, is non-different from the Supreme Personality of Godhead who is the Supreme Brahman."

And Difference: Katha Upanishad 2.2.13 nityo nityanam cetanas cetananam eko bahunam yo vidadhati kaman
“The Supreme Lord is eternal and the living beings are eternal. The Supreme Lord is cognizant and the living beings are cognizant. The difference is that the Supreme Lord is supplying all the necessities of life for the many other living entities.”

So while the compiled philosophy of Achintya Bheda Abheda became popular through Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, it is not something that did not exist before. All Vaishnava philosophies have been propounded before actually.

If the self is God, and is covered by maya, does that mean God is also covered by maya? To me this is an impossibility. However, you are free to make your own understanding. I hope my words do not sound judgemental.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Various choices, all valid, you choose (according to your own inclination - whatever resonates with you).

 

[sayak83]

Namaste,

I read the Krsna Book by Prabhupada, chapter 85, where he says:

The Vedic version tat tvam asi, “Thou art the same,” means not that everyone is God but that everyone is qualitatively of the same nature as God.

I don’t know much about Hinduism but I know that tat tvam asi just means “Thou art that”, and that “the same” was added to make it look like it confirms achintya bheda abheda. I also know that most Upanishads are older than achintya bheda abheda. If I stick to the original meaning of tat tvam asi then it confirms that the Self is God.

Please discuss.

You are correct in your assessment.

 

[ajay0]

Namaste,

I read the Krsna Book by Prabhupada, chapter 85, where he says:

The Vedic version tat tvam asi, “Thou art the same,” means not that everyone is God but that everyone is qualitatively of the same nature as God.

This is true. Brahman is pure consciousness as the Vedas point out. Nirguna Brahman is pure consciousness of an impersonal nature, while God as Saguna Brahman and the jivatman or soul are pure consciousness of a personalised nature, with the Jivatman in bondage due to karma. This bondage, when hacked off through spiritual exercises and meditation, results in the soul or jivatman being purified of karma and regaining its original state as pure consciousness.

Paramahamsa Yogananda also states in this regard, "The word 'God' means the manifested, transcendental Being beyond creation, but existing in relation to creation. Spirit existed before God. God is the Creator of the universe, but Spirit is the Creator of God."

Here spirit stands for Nirguna Brahman, while God stands for Saguna Brahman.

In the yogic philosophy, the Shivalinga as Saguna Brahman is considered the first form to arise when creation occurs, and also the last form before the dissolution of creation.

The Kashi Vishwanath temple considers the Shivalinga as representing a huge pillar of light.

Interestingly, as per the Shaivite monotheistic religious sect called the Prajapita Brahmakumaris, the form of the Shiva linga denotes God as a point of light, and who is known as Jehovah, Allah, Ahura Mazda in other religions.

 

[Valjean]

Swami Prabhupada was a dvaitist bhakti.

There are levels of consciousness. IMHO, Tat tvam asi refers to a state of unity a step beyond the dualistic heaven sought by ISKCONis.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Swami Prabhupada and the Gaudiya Matha are a development from Dvaita. 'Achintya Bheda-Abheda' means 'why do you ponder on the question of sameness or difference? It is simply indescribable'. But even in Madhvacharya's 'Dvaita', finally the Supreme person and a common man/beings are the same. I discussed the problem with a Madhva scholar. I will need to search for the thread.