Talking to outsiders

[LuisDantas]

If you're addressing me, could you quote or tag?

Sorry. I should have, indeed. My bad.

Its hard to explain without going off topic. For example, each country has its own flag. Each flag has its colors and its history. They are important to those sets of native inhabitants of that country for whatever reason. It represents who they are.

I don't think that is off-topic, at least so far.

And while I think that you have a point, I also think that there is a lot to be said about the relative merits of conscious adherence as contrasted to inheritance.

Perhaps more significant yet is that it seems to me that cultures are largely living constructs, and their subsistence is at least as dependent on vital flow and rediscovery as they are reliant on inherited tradition.

Of course, the flag (or cultural foundation) isnt fixed to one area. Colors and material and meanings arent alien to other countries. Yet, we do have different things we share. A lot of cultures want to keep their flag within their own country because of what it stands for and how they and no one else outside their history has personal ties to that said flag. In other words, (idiom-like phrase) the flag is not theirs. Not own as in possess but own as in who shares what and why as a group.

It would seem that for some people that holds more significance than others. I am definitely at the low end of that spectrum.

Then again, I am quite the mongrelman.

When a group doesnt want to share the story of their flag to others, they want to keep their tradition and history within their own country. Mostly because of, sorry to say, christian and muslim influence; so, its not possession as in its-mine-mine-mine. Its a symbol of survival. So, thats why people dont share their views because of that.

I was wondering if thats it or is there a deeper reason why spiritual topics are kept within one group but things like, whats your passion, can be discussed with anyone who shares interest or has interest in speaking of it.

It seems to me that true spirituality can only be fulfilled by respect to traditions to a certain degree. Daring to learn and practice is indispensable to go beyond that. Even if one wants to remain inside his or her inherited traditions.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's as stupid as a present day Christian hating present day Italians because ancient Romans fed ancient Christians to lions, and that sort of attitude signifies that Santeria isn't worth anyone's time anyway.

Not convinced on that in this particular case.
My limited understanding of it is that it was a way of hiding local beliefs with a enough Catholicism that slaves could worship without interference.

It might be a little hard to take probing questions on doctrinal inconsistencies from Catholics, that being the case.

Still, in general terms I see where you are coming from.

 

[Marcion]

I notice this so far on RF with, Some: Hindus. Christians. Pagans. Probably more.

What is the reason for talking about spiritual topics of ones faith if not the bias of choosing who you want to speak with for whatever reason?

Are you referring to Hindus, Christians etc. who mainly open topics about their own religions inside their own DIR because they (theoretically) want to avoid discussing their religious outlook with outsiders?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Are you referring to Hindus, Christians etc. who mainly open topics about their own religions inside their own DIR because they (theoretically) want to avoid discussing their religious outlook with outsiders?

No. I meet in person many minority groups culture and religious who are very cautious in giving more than basic (not secret) conversation about their belief.

For example, a christian would change his convo when he finds the other isn't Christian. A Hindu would dub down his meanings (mostly something you can research) even with those who want to know more about the religion(s) as a unit. For example, the definition of Brahma to name a few.

I noticed Pagans are close nit. I think that's a historical thing as well. Other reasons I assume are history and friction and not wanting to downgrade their traditions say like the Jews.

I was wondering if people had more personal or, I guess deeper reasons why they are opt to change their tone, motive, or downplay their beliefs when speaking to outsiders.

 

[Marcion]

No. I meet in person many minority groups culture and religious who are very cautious in giving more than basic (not secret) conversation about their belief.

For example, a christian would change his convo when he finds the other isn't Christian. A Hindu would dub down his meanings (mostly something you can research) even with those who want to know more about the religion(s) as a unit. For example, the definition of Brahma to name a few.

I noticed Pagans are close nit. I think that's a historical thing as well. Other reasons I assume are history and friction and not wanting to downgrade their traditions say like the Jews.

I was wondering if people had more personal or, I guess deeper reasons why they are opt to change their tone, motive, or downplay their beliefs when speaking to outsiders.

My own reasons would be that I forsee a lot of misunderstandings that would need too much explaining. And the explaining would not do much good because of the very different conditioning of the other person(s). This doesn't only apply to speaking about my spiritual path but also about politics and intimate personal feelings or experiences. Some things are just not suited for more casual conversations with perceived "outsiders". So I grope for some quick words to round off the subject neatly without offending the other person.

On the other side, I always wonder what makes certain Christians want to discuss with outsiders their love for Jesus, it seems like they are wasting their precious feelings, it feels like an embarrasment. I can well understand the nature of such devotional feelings but why share that with people who don't have that same outlook?

If I quote or reproduce a text from my spiritual teacher here on the forum, I always first think if this could be of general interest to e.g. Buddhists or Hindus also.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

My own reasons would be that I forsee a lot of misunderstandings that would need too much explaining. And the explaining would not do much good because of the very different conditioning of the other person(s). This doesn't only apply to speaking about my spiritual path but also about politics and intimate personal feelings or experiences. Some things are just not suited for more casual conversations with perceived "outsiders". So I grope for some quick words to round off the subject neatly without offending the other person.

On the other side, I always wonder what makes certain Christians want to discuss with outsiders their love for Jesus, it seems like they are wasting their precious feelings, it feels like an embarrasment. I can well understand their devotional feelings but why share that with people who don't have that same outlook?

For me, Im very expressive. If someone has the patience, interest, and genuinely kind and respectful, I dont mind talking and explaining things. In itself, that leads a good conversation. For example, if someone asked me about The Buddha's teachings, I mean, they can look it up of course. However, I assume they want to ask a human for a regular conversation. So, the simple conversation graduates to deeper ones.

I see this work well when I used to teach English as a Forign Language. Adult students only knew the ABCs and basic words; however, as instructors, we can only talk in english. The classes progress in difficulty but not in their native language.

I see it possible if there is mutual interest, patience, and trust involved.

As for christians, say you love someone. You are so in love you want to shout it to the roof. The powerful feeling of expressing ones self and belief is, well, at least in American Culture of independence etc, we tend to want to express our successes, experiences, and personal as well as community lives as a whole.

Just depends.

 

[Marcion]

I see it possible if there is mutual interest, patience, and trust involved.

As for christians, say you love someone. You are so in love you want to shout it to the roof. The powerful feeling of expressing ones self and belief is, well, at least in American Culture of independence etc, we tend to want to express our successes, experiences, and personal as well as community lives as a whole.
Just depends.

It could depend on the culture. I'm not used to the American style but more to the Anglo-Dutch way of presenting your more personal self.
I notice that some Bahai on this forum also seem to be rather extroversial in the way they share the love for their faith.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Hm.

It could depend on the culture. I'm not used to the American style but more to the Anglo-Dutch way of presenting your more personal self

I havent heard of other culture means of expressing oneself. I had a friend from the Philippines years ago. She said everything she says is a reflection of her family as a whole. So, she really has to get to know someone before she shares her feelings. She said some personal things to me but after awhile, I wonder if its something she would say to anyone.

What is the Anglo-Dutch way of personal self (in a general point of view)?

I notice that some Bahai on this forum also seem to be rather extroversial in the way they share the love for their faith.

Yeah. That was new for me. My worldview was only christians. I never received that from Muslims here. Nichiren Buddhist and SGI are only ones closest to christian and, I noticed, bahai evangelism.

 

[Marcion]

What is the Anglo-Dutch way of personal self (in a general point of view)?

In my case a mix of what I copied from my English and Dutch roots.
The English side makes me want to remain more reserved and never flap out personal things or opinions to strangers.
The Dutch side makes me want to be blunt and open about what I think and feel but slow to really get familiar with people who are not related or close friends.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

In my case a mix of what I copied from my English and Dutch roots.
The English side makes me want to remain more reserved and never flap out personal things or opinions to strangers.
The Dutch side makes me want to be blunt and open about what I think and feel but slow to really get familiar with people who are not related or close friends.

Ha. Nice combination.

 

[LuisDantas]

Not convinced on that in this particular case.
My limited understanding of it is that it was a way of hiding local beliefs with a enough Catholicism that slaves could worship without interference.

As an aside, a very similar situation gave rise to Brazilian creeds Umbanda and Candomblé.

Both are actually Brazilian in origin, but also direct inheritors of a variety of African traditions.

Candomblé arose because there was a practical need to convince the slavelords that they were Catholics.

Umbanda is similar in some respects, but more Animist in its beliefs. It is often compared and contrasted with an even more popular Animist creed that exists here in Brazil, Kardecist Spiritism. Kardecism was originated in France, but these days it is almost exclusively Brazilian.

However, Brazil's racial discrimination is often subtle, even covert. One of the consequences is that it is not all that unusual to see people of various ethnic origins, including many caucasians or quasi-caucasians, practicing both faiths. Even many otherwise "pure" Catholics have a taste for offering flowers for Yemanja at New Year's Eve.

 

[Vinayaka]

No. I meet in person many minority groups culture and religious who are very cautious in giving more than basic (not secret) conversation about their belief.

I think an example of what you're saying might be advertising. You don't see many billboards inviting people to come and join outside Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish temples. I think almost anyone will share some stuff if asked, but what we're talking about here, I think is those who share abundantly without being asked.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think an example of what you're saying might be advertising. You don't see many billboards inviting people to come and join outside Buddhist, Hindu, or Jewish temples. I think almost anyone will share some stuff if asked, but what we're talking about here, I think is those who share abundantly without being asked.

Ah. No. Not prys. The people I spoke with, I asked their beliefs. They invited me to a ritual dance but because we are so christian they had to have it in a isolated area (they kill and sacrifice animals
The animal rights got involved, so...). I called but I assume they had it where I couldn't go without a car.

They probably wouldn't have invited a white person, to be brutally honest. They do have reservations on, say, intitation processes and prayers of course; I didn't ask. But, from what I know, they volunteered to tell me.

Outside the secret things, do to respect, are there other things that may keep someone from talking to outsiders? With Pagans and minorities I speak with its mostly historical interaction and present with christians. Outside personal preference, I wouldn't know why.