Taliban: serious, propaganda or both?

[sun rise]

The Taliban is projecting a more moderate face than they did 20 years ago. Are they serious? Lying/propaganda? A bit of both? They clearly are not speaking with one voice yet. I'm skeptical but just a bit hopeful.

Afghan women to have rights within Islamic law, Taliban say

In the group's first news conference since taking control of the country on Sunday, a spokesman said women would be free to work but gave little detail about other rules and restrictions.
...
"We are going to allow women to work and study within our frameworks," he said. "Women are going to be very active within our society."
...
Earlier on Tuesday, the Taliban declared a general amnesty across Afghanistan and said it wanted women to join its government.

Analysts say the group is running a sophisticated PR campaign in an effort to win the hearts and minds of both Afghans and the international community.
...
When asked about the risk of the country housing al-Qaeda fighters or other extremists, he said "Afghanistan's soil is not going to be used against anybody"

(Another story)
Taliban Say Burqa Not Mandatory For Women, Hijab Is

Women "can get education from primary to higher education -- that means university. We have announced this policy at international conferences, the Moscow conference and here at the Doha conference (on Afghanistan)," Shaheen said.

Thousands of schools in areas captured by the Taliban were still operational, he added.

 

[Deidre]

I'm beyond skeptical.

‘Prisoners in homes’: The women in Afghanistan barred from leaving home without a man

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Well, I hope they're serious. If they're going to run the country, I would rather them be more sane this time.

 

[Nakosis]

The Taliban is projecting a more moderate face than they did 20 years ago. Are they serious? Lying/propaganda? A bit of both? They clearly are not speaking with one voice yet. I'm skeptical but just a bit hopeful.

Afghan women to have rights within Islamic law, Taliban say

In the group's first news conference since taking control of the country on Sunday, a spokesman said women would be free to work but gave little detail about other rules and restrictions.
...
"We are going to allow women to work and study within our frameworks," he said. "Women are going to be very active within our society."
...
Earlier on Tuesday, the Taliban declared a general amnesty across Afghanistan and said it wanted women to join its government.

Analysts say the group is running a sophisticated PR campaign in an effort to win the hearts and minds of both Afghans and the international community.
...
When asked about the risk of the country housing al-Qaeda fighters or other extremists, he said "Afghanistan's soil is not going to be used against anybody"

(Another story)
Taliban Say Burqa Not Mandatory For Women, Hijab Is

Women "can get education from primary to higher education -- that means university. We have announced this policy at international conferences, the Moscow conference and here at the Doha conference (on Afghanistan)," Shaheen said.

Thousands of schools in areas captured by the Taliban were still operational, he added.

I've read the elder Taliban have wizened up to the fact they there is a need to interact with the world. However there remains a radicalize youth that are the majority of the militant. So while we may hear one thing from the leaders, what actually happens on the ground may not really be under their control.

 

[Twilight Hue]

The Taliban is projecting a more moderate face than they did 20 years ago. Are they serious? Lying/propaganda? A bit of both? They clearly are not speaking with one voice yet. I'm skeptical but just a bit hopeful.

Afghan women to have rights within Islamic law, Taliban say

In the group's first news conference since taking control of the country on Sunday, a spokesman said women would be free to work but gave little detail about other rules and restrictions.
...
"We are going to allow women to work and study within our frameworks," he said. "Women are going to be very active within our society."
...
Earlier on Tuesday, the Taliban declared a general amnesty across Afghanistan and said it wanted women to join its government.

Analysts say the group is running a sophisticated PR campaign in an effort to win the hearts and minds of both Afghans and the international community.
...
When asked about the risk of the country housing al-Qaeda fighters or other extremists, he said "Afghanistan's soil is not going to be used against anybody"

(Another story)
Taliban Say Burqa Not Mandatory For Women, Hijab Is

Women "can get education from primary to higher education -- that means university. We have announced this policy at international conferences, the Moscow conference and here at the Doha conference (on Afghanistan)," Shaheen said.

Thousands of schools in areas captured by the Taliban were still operational, he added.

I think the Taliban is lying through their teeth for strategic reasons.

Lying and deception is allowed in Islam when dealing with enemies. Shia's call it taqiyya. I dunno if Sunni's call it the same term, or if it's something different, but it's there.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well, I hope they're serious. If they're going to run the country, I would rather them be more sane this time.

I'm still waiting to see if they will be formally declared a legitimate and recognized government.

Knowing how far left the UN has gotten..

As for the Taliban, it's not hard to see they won't be anywhere near sane.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The Taliban is projecting a more moderate face than they did 20 years ago. Are they serious? Lying/propaganda? A bit of both? They clearly are not speaking with one voice yet. I'm skeptical but just a bit hopeful.

Afghan women to have rights within Islamic law, Taliban say

In the group's first news conference since taking control of the country on Sunday, a spokesman said women would be free to work but gave little detail about other rules and restrictions.
...
"We are going to allow women to work and study within our frameworks," he said. "Women are going to be very active within our society."
...
Earlier on Tuesday, the Taliban declared a general amnesty across Afghanistan and said it wanted women to join its government.

Analysts say the group is running a sophisticated PR campaign in an effort to win the hearts and minds of both Afghans and the international community.
...
When asked about the risk of the country housing al-Qaeda fighters or other extremists, he said "Afghanistan's soil is not going to be used against anybody"

(Another story)
Taliban Say Burqa Not Mandatory For Women, Hijab Is

Women "can get education from primary to higher education -- that means university. We have announced this policy at international conferences, the Moscow conference and here at the Doha conference (on Afghanistan)," Shaheen said.

Thousands of schools in areas captured by the Taliban were still operational, he added.

What I've been reading about them says otherwise.
**** on words. They will be judged by action.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

I'm still waiting to see if they will be formally declared a legitimate and recognized government.

Knowing how far left the UN has gotten..

As for the Taliban, it's not hard to see they won't be anywhere near sane.

Hypothetically, the follow through on this, step more into the 21st century and the territory stabilizes and it takes on the characteristics of a nation then how would it be left to acknowledge this as a state?
I'll accept I was wrong if I am, but I doubt the Taliban will be any significantly different than they were. They've bided their time and revealed themselves when the time came stepped out and walked into where they were when they stepped down 20 years ago. Long term planing is something they do. I don't see any needed policy changes happening.

 

[Kooky]

It's not like this setup wouldn't have precedence - we know of Islamic theocracies like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women have nominal "rights" of sorts while still being oppressed and subject to frequent unfair treatment, harassment, and physical violence at the hands of men.

I've read the elder Taliban have wizened up to the fact they there is a need to interact with the world. However there remains a radicalize youth that are the majority of the militant. So while we may hear one thing from the leaders, what actually happens on the ground may not really be under their control.

I honestly think most of what we hear from the Taliban right now is intended to placate Western leaders while the Taliban are still stabilizing control over their country and are in dire need of looking like a rational actor to foreign diplomats - it seems evident to me that one of their goals is to be recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

Once they're in the saddle, time will tell whether they're going to ossify like Iran's geriatric theocracy, or start purging earlier sympathizers in an effort to regain their radical edge.

In either case, things aren't going to look good for women and secularists no matter what.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's not like this setup wouldn't have precedence - we know of Islamic theocracies like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women have nominal "rights" of sorts while still being oppressed and subject to frequent unfair treatment, harassment, and physical violence at the hands of men.


I honestly think most of what we hear from the Taliban right now is intended to placate Western leaders while the Taliban are still stabilizing control over their country and are in dire need of looking like a rational actor to foreign diplomats - it seems evident to me that one of their goals is to be recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

Once they're in the saddle, time will tell whether they're going to ossify like Iran's geriatric theocracy, or start purging earlier sympathizers in an effort to regain their radical edge.

In either case, things aren't going to look good for women and secularists no matter what.

Imagine legitimacy granted.....years go by....
Nuclear weapons, standing army, ....

Another loose cannon.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Imagine legitimacy granted.....years go by....
Nuclear weapons, standing army, ....

Another loose cannon.

You think they need to be recognized as a state for that?
You think they think they need it?
They're going to do what they want regardless.

 

[Shakeel]

I'm beyond skeptical.

‘Prisoners in homes’: The women in Afghanistan barred from leaving home without a man

They can be taken to school and work - and I would think they'd like that.

 

[Augustus]

Lying and deception is allowed in Islam when dealing with enemies. Shia's call it taqiyya. I dunno if Sunni's call it the same term, or if it's something different, but it's there.

Lying and deception is allowed in any culture when dealing with enemies...

Also taqiyya is about denying your true religious beliefs if admiting them would put you at personal risk. Jews have a similar concept

 

[Aupmanyav]

Let the situation unfold. A little too soon to comment.

 

[Estro Felino]

I was watching Black Robe last night.
A movie about the French evangelization attempts in Canada.
I think that we can never westernize the world.
We did it in the past, and it was not right.
Those people won't be westernized.

 

[Spirit of Light]

I think the Taliban is lying through their teeth for strategic reasons.

Lying and deception is allowed in Islam when dealing with enemies. Shia's call it taqiyya. I dunno if Sunni's call it the same term, or if it's something different, but it's there.

As far as i know Taqiyya should only applyed if or when one are captured and in fear are afraid for one own or other muslims lifes. Taqiyya is not to be used in the regard of how Talbian has taken control over Afghanistan now.

Actually the western military has a similar rule when it comes to if they are captured. Only state name, rank and military number you are asigned. Other than that keep silent. Right?

 

[Glaurung]

I hope the Taliban are sincere about being (somewhat) more moderate this time around. Perhaps they calculate a need to be seen as a (at least) somewhat sane regime by the wider world. My suspicion is that they will start off more moderate and then gradually clamp down as time goes on. Only time will tell if that is the case.

Alternately, they have no intention to change and are just putting on a face for the moment while they establish control.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It's not like this setup wouldn't have precedence - we know of Islamic theocracies like Iran or Saudi Arabia, where women have nominal "rights" of sorts while still being oppressed and subject to frequent unfair treatment, harassment, and physical violence at the hands of men.


I honestly think most of what we hear from the Taliban right now is intended to placate Western leaders while the Taliban are still stabilizing control over their country and are in dire need of looking like a rational actor to foreign diplomats - it seems evident to me that one of their goals is to be recognized as the legitimate government of Afghanistan.

Once they're in the saddle, time will tell whether they're going to ossify like Iran's geriatric theocracy, or start purging earlier sympathizers in an effort to regain their radical edge.

In either case, things aren't going to look good for women and secularists no matter what.

They are complying because they know full well what will happen to them if they dont.

 

[Mock Turtle]

I don't know if the Taliban will honour any of what they are expressing now, and to what extent it might remain so - but I doubt it.

It just seems to be the way of things that we will be having this situation so often in the future (as we have done in the past) - more patriarchal attitudes often allied to religious beliefs and usually affecting female rights/freedoms and male attitudes towards them - but this will eventually be defeated. This seems to be one of the flaws within Islam (the more fundamentalist versions) - determining the roles of females - since I think that most females who get to taste the freedoms that Western Liberalism tends to espouse would choose such, especially if allowed by their religion. And if the religion didn't allow this - then perhaps some would be weened off such. Not nice for those who have to live where such struggles exist though. The belief that Islam affects all aspects of life has sometimes seemed to me an arrogance, but perhaps seen as a necessary advance over all other religions, even if this did have it's deficits - as we see all too often, as in being too controlling. But then I think that Islam overall will be moderated, as most other religious beliefs have done so over the ages, and just become another religion to accept or reject. So all the groups like ISIS, Al Qaeda, Taliban, etc., will be just be footnotes in history - perhaps saluted by some but ignored by most.

So more a patriarchal issue, and so because of lack of progress, than a religious one, but in this case tied to a religious belief system as much as it might be down to culture.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I was watching Black Robe last night.
A movie about the French evangelization attempts in Canada.
I think that we can never westernize the world.
We did it in the past, and it was not right.
Those people won't be westernized.

I suspect you're right. But do you mind defining what you mean by 'westernize'?