Taliban scraps Women's Affairs Ministry....

[Kooky]

Many have cared about Afghanis like Lara Logan for example.

I checked out her CV and it seems the last time she had a significant journalistic presence there was in 2010, when she loudly criticized the Obama administration's handling of the occupation.

What has she factually done in the meantime that suggests to you that she still cares about it beyond her apparent function as Fox News celebrity journalist and hoax superspreader?

But at least they cared about Americans. Biden just left Americans there to fend for themselves. And keep in mind it was his mess. He made the whole mess and then wouldn't even get Americans stuck there out. He went so far as to shut down private operations from Americans trying to rescue people in Afghanistan. Shut down Glen Beck for example and others. Probably because that would make him look bad. Well now he looks even worse. The guy is so incompetent that he can't even be evil without messing that up too.

Really, if Biden "created" this situation, then what exactly do you believe happened in Afghanistan during the previous 20 years of US occupation? Have you guys ever actually looked at a map of the country you were bringing "freedom" into by way of military payloads onto the heads of its civilian population, let alone paid attention to what had been going on there for nearly two decades?

 

[74x12]

I checked out her CV and it seems the last time she had a significant journalistic presence there was in 2010, when she loudly criticized the Obama administration's handling of the occupation.

What has she factually done in the meantime that suggests to you that she still cares about it beyond her apparent function as Fox News celebrity journalist and hoax superspreader?

The hoax is Biden who can't even consistently be relied upon to successfully stumble his way through a teleprompter speech anymore and his joke of an administration. The reason she is at Fox news is because she won't be allowed in liberal controlled news media realms. She has no choice. You wonder why people side with conservatives and Republicans? Because of the "tolerant" left wing. So tolerant that they won't allow any dissenting voices. If you're not in lock step then you're out. Normal people have no choice but to unite against their totalitarian cult like behavior.

She has been significant but since she is on Fox news you won't listen.

Really, if Biden "created" this situation, then what exactly do you believe happened in Afghanistan during the previous 20 years of US occupation? Have you guys ever actually looked at a map of the country you were bringing "freedom" into by way of military payloads onto the heads of its civilian population, let alone paid attention to what had been going on there for nearly two decades?

I haven't supported the Afghan war for years. But what Biden has done is unacceptable to anyone but the most partisan of supporters.

Actually Biden was a huge proponent of and voted to invade Afghanistan in the first place. He is directly responsible. Not only have many of us looked at a map. People like Lara Logan and others have been to Afghanistan. Speaking of dropping payloads on civilians. Let's talk about the innocent family that Biden's drone destroyed and it was touted by the liberal media as a big win against terrorism. Actually the guy they killed was always helping people. He was apparently a really good guy. They had to know he wasn't a terrorist but they just didn't care. They did no investigation. I suspect that Biden just didn't want to kill an actual terrorist because that would have angered the Taliban. Disgusting.

 

[Kooky]

The hoax is Biden who can't even consistently be relied upon to successfully stumble his way through a teleprompter speech anymore and his joke of an administration.

I was talking about that time when she shared a Neonazi hoax about Antifa with her audience, apparently without either realizing or caring that it was a hoax. I know he has metastasized into the new face of Satan for right-wing audiences in the US, but shockingly not everything bad in this world happens because of Biden.

The reason she is at Fox news is because she won't be allowed in liberal controlled news media realms. She has no choice. You wonder why people side with conservatives and Republicans? Because of the "tolerant" left wing. So tolerant that they won't allow any dissenting voices. If you're not in lock step then you're out. Normal people have no choice but to unite against their totalitarian cult like behavior.

She has been significant but since she is on Fox news you won't listen.

I don't care about this woman or what you think of her, honestly. You brought her up as an example of a person who "cares" about Afghanistan, but I see no evidence that she does. Can you cite anything she has done in recent years (say, since 2015) that suggests she cares about the country and its inhabitants in any significant shape or form?

I haven't supported the Afghan war for years. But what Biden has done is unacceptable to anyone but the most partisan of supporters.

You mean, end an occupation that has cost thousands of Afghan lives? Would you like the US military to kill even more Afghans over the next decade?

Actually Biden was a huge proponent of and voted to invade Afghanistan in the first place. He is directly responsible.

Indeed he is. Which also implicates every single US Senator and Representative who supported the war at the time, and everyone who has voted to keep the war going ever since, or supported that choice by inaction.

Not only have many of us looked at a map. People like Lara Logan and others have been to Afghanistan. Speaking of dropping payloads on civilians. Let's talk about the innocent family that Biden's drone destroyed and it was touted by the liberal media as a big win against terrorism.

No, let's talk about the thousands of families who were destroyed previously. What have you to say about those? Was killing families fine and dandy before Biden took office? Was it cool to kill Afghan people when Trump was still at the helm? What about Obama? George W Bush?

Or, perhaps, has it always been wrong to occupy Afghanistan to kill the people living there?

What do you think?

 

[74x12]

I don't care about this woman or what you think of her, honestly. You brought her up as an example of a person who "cares" about Afghanistan, but I see no evidence that she does. Can you cite anything she has done in recent years (say, since 2015) that suggests she cares about the country and its inhabitants in any significant shape or form?

She obviously cares but you can always move the goal posts. I'm not going to waste time on that. The fact is that people do care about Afghanistan.

But do you even care about Afghanistan? Because I'm not getting that from your posts.

How about others who used their own money to try to get people out of Afghanistan? Glenn Beck etc.

You mean, end an occupation that has cost thousands of Afghan lives? Would you like the US military to kill even more Afghans over the next decade?

No, I'd rather the Taliban did the killings; they'll just kill the "right" people like blasphemers against Mohammad, women who don't want to wear hijabs etc. I'm with Biden on this one. The Taliban need more funding.

No, let's talk about the thousands of families who were destroyed previously. What have you to say about those? Was killing families fine and dandy before Biden took office? Was it cool to kill Afghan people when Trump was still at the helm? What about Obama? George W Bush?

Or, perhaps, has it always been wrong to occupy Afghanistan to kill the people living there?

What do you think?

I don't support the war in Afghanistan. I wanted out like everyone else. But not like Biden did it. You don't seem to understand that leaving Afghanistan with a Taliban mess is just adding insult to injury. In fact the Taliban is now seemingly much stronger than it ever was. We went into Afghanistan to supposedly get rid of the Taliban and Al Qaeda; if you believe the mainstream narrative. We turned the country into a war zone and for what? The military industrial complex that was behind the war never really cared about the people of Afghanistan and they proved it. Whatever was the real reason for occupying Afghanistan. It's over now and so they leave.

That's disgusting to me. It's betrayal. It's wicked. It's wrong. So you can stand with this decision if you want and pretend it's okay but it is not. Just like everything else Biden does as president it seems to hurt good people and make America weaker.

 

[Kooky]

She obviously cares but you can always move the goal posts. I'm not going to waste time on that. The fact is that people do care about Afghanistan.

But do you even care about Afghanistan? Because I'm not getting that from your posts.

I don't give a rat's behind about Afghanistan.

I do however care about the people who have to flee from that place, because I encounter them in my daily life as part of my job teaching my language to refugees. And those people were not being helped by US-backed ethnic cleansings and US-directed bombing campaigns.

What about you?

How about others who used their own money to try to get people out of Afghanistan? Glenn Beck etc.

If Glenn Beck provably does something real with his money that factually helps people, rather than just loudly talk about it to attract donations from his followers, then more power to him. I consider his politics execrable but if he manages to do something good in spite of them then he has my blessing.

No, I'd rather the Taliban did the killings; they'll just kill the "right" people like blasphemers against Mohammad, women who don't want to wear hijabs etc. I'm with Biden on this one. The Taliban need more funding.

I was being serious. You seem to be opposed to withdrawing from Afghanistan, yet you claim to care about its people. What alternative solution do you propose?

I don't support the war in Afghanistan. I wanted out like everyone else. But not like Biden did it. You don't seem to understand that leaving Afghanistan with a Taliban mess is just adding insult to injury. In fact the Taliban is now seemingly much stronger than it ever was. We went into Afghanistan to supposedly get rid of the Taliban and Al Qaeda; if you believe the mainstream narrative. We turned the country into a war zone and for what? The military industrial complex that was behind the war never really cared about the people of Afghanistan and they proved it. Whatever was the real reason for occupying Afghanistan. It's over now and so they leave.

I see no indication that the US could have withdrawn without its puppet government collapsing and leaving the Taliban in power. Do you?

That's disgusting to me. It's betrayal. It's wicked. It's wrong. So you can stand with this decision if you want and pretend it's okay but it is not. Just like everything else Biden does as president it seems to hurt good people and make America weaker.

Can you, in concrete terms, characterize an outcome to the occupation of Afghanistan that you could have lived with?

 

[74x12]

I don't give a rat's behind about Afghanistan.

Is that why you defend the indefensible?

do however care about the people who have to flee from that place, because I encounter them in my daily life as part of my job teaching my language to refugees. And those people were not being helped by US-backed ethnic cleansings and US-directed bombing campaigns.

Why would they come if they hate us so much? They are afraid of the Taliban which Biden apparently considers a possible new ally or something.

What about you?

I believe if we want to help people we should help them in their own land. We don't have to accept the whole world as immigrants. At this point we owe Afghanistan because we invaded them.

I was being serious. You seem to be opposed to withdrawing from Afghanistan, yet you claim to care about its people. What alternative solution do you propose?

We should have helped the government we put so much effort plus money into setting up. Instead we just abandon it for the Taliban and the intelligence agencies knew what would happen. Iraq worked somehow. The government we set up is still in power. A new Saddam hasn't arisen ... yet. (cross your fingers on that one) We had the problem of ISIS but dealt with it. We didn't just watch ISIS take over everything and do nothing like Biden is doing.

I see no indication that the US could have withdrawn without its puppet government collapsing and leaving the Taliban in power. Do you?

I do. The whole thing was worse than incompetent. I already pointed out that the US intelligence knew where the Taliban were the whole time. If you still think they were hiding in caves this whole time you; I have news for you. Their clothes are clean, they are clean because they aren't living in dirty caves. That was 15 years ago that the Taliban lived in caves. They've been living in houses in Pakistan and entering Afghanistan with impunity. That's how they how they were successful and quickly took over all of Afghanistan. It was a well planned and coordinated military campaign. Many Pakistanis in the military and government are likely complicit and secretly Taliban themselves. The Taliban could even be a proxy army for the Pakistani government. It's not beyond possibility.

Yes we could have stopped the Taliban. All we had to do was pressure Pakistan and possibly even send troops into Pakistan. USA gives Pakistan billions every year in aide. We basically fund their military. I would suggest that they would not be likely to stop us if we really wanted to deal with the Taliban. But we would need to actually face down Pakistan and make them do what we want. I don't believe it would result in war with Pakistan. They have no choice but to listen because they are surrounded by potential enemies like India. So they are vulnerable and could be pressured into doing the right thing.

Can you, in concrete terms, characterize an outcome to the occupation of Afghanistan that you could have lived with?

A successful withdrawal even if took a bit longer; one that didn't involve people hanging onto the outside of c17 cargo planes just to escape a Totalitarian theocratic takeover in Afghanistan. We owe Afghanistan that much.

 

[Kooky]

Is that why you defend the indefensible?

What do you believe I am defending?

Why would they come if they hate us so much? They are afraid of the Taliban which Biden apparently considers a possible new ally or something.

Here's a general tip when talking about people: In my opinion, it is generally unproductive for discussion to lump a bunch of people you've never talked to or even know into a huge group of "they" and then ascribe motivations and beliefs to them without having even the slightest idea what they want or believe.

It's generally fine to ascribe collective motivations to institutions or specific organizations, and to ascribe collective beliefs to people grouped together by common political ideology or religion, but as soon as you depart from these relatively easy-to-define categories, you are going to depart from observable reality rather quickly.

For example, where do you get the idea from that refugees from Afghanistan "hate us so much" and that "us" includes American and European civilians who have nothing at all to do with the actions of NATO or its allied warlords? Have you ever actually talked to one of these refugees?

I have, and many of those I've talked to just want to live in peace, in a place that neither oppresses or persecutes them nor puts them in danger. Quite a few of them, however, have given up on the idea that Afghanistan could ever be that kind of place. I've talked to people who were basically raised in refugee camps, and have never even seen their country of origin in the past decades.

Treating these people all like Taliban supporters or potential terrorists is, I feel, not only bigoted, but frankly cruel.

I believe if we want to help people we should help them in their own land.

I've heard this slogan many, many times. In my experience, this falls apart on two levels:

• being able to deploy aid and support that's helpful and effective
• being willing to deploy aid and support in the first place

So far, I have never seen people claiming to want to help people "in their own land" actually willing to put their money where their mouth is - almost always, their "help" has been in the form of symbolic gestures at best, and nonexistent at worst.

European and US development aid is in a lot of cases either misguided, or a back channel subsidy for domestic companies (such as "helping" farmers by supplying them with American-produced seeds and American-produced tractors, rather than supporting people in building up an agricultural infrastructure adapted to their unique needs).

We don't have to accept the whole world as immigrants. At this point we owe Afghanistan because we invaded them.

The US has dodged that obligation for 20 years already, I do not expect them to live up to it within the next decades, either.

We should have helped the government we put so much effort plus money into setting up. Instead we just abandon it for the Taliban and the intelligence agencies knew what would happen. Iraq worked somehow. The government we set up is still in power. A new Saddam hasn't arisen ... yet. (cross your fingers on that one) We had the problem of ISIS but dealt with it. We didn't just watch ISIS take over everything and do nothing like Biden is doing.

What you suggest is a continuation of the NATO occupation of Afghanistan, perhaps indefinitely.

I do. The whole thing was worse than incompetent. I already pointed out that the US intelligence knew where the Taliban were the whole time. If you still think they were hiding in caves this whole time you; I have news for you. Their clothes are clean, they are clean because they aren't living in dirty caves. That was 15 years ago that the Taliban lived in caves. They've been living in houses in Pakistan and entering Afghanistan with impunity. That's how they how they were successful and quickly took over all of Afghanistan. It was a well planned and coordinated military campaign. Many Pakistanis in the military and government are likely complicit and secretly Taliban themselves. The Taliban could even be a proxy army for the Pakistani government. It's not beyond possibility.


Yes we could have stopped the Taliban. All we had to do was pressure Pakistan and possibly even send troops into Pakistan. USA gives Pakistan billions every year in aide. We basically fund their military. I would suggest that they would not be likely to stop us if we really wanted to deal with the Taliban. But we would need to actually face down Pakistan and make them do what we want. I don't believe it would result in war with Pakistan. They have no choice but to listen because they are surrounded by potential enemies like India. So they are vulnerable and could be pressured into doing the right thing.

So you would suggest the US turn on one of its primary allies in the region?
How do you think that would play out in Pakistan, or internationally - particularly given Pakistan's already fairly close relationship with China? Do you actually believe a government caves in to the demands of a foreign invader just because that invader happens to be their nominal ally?

A successful withdrawal even if took a bit longer; one that didn't involve people hanging onto the outside of c17 cargo planes just to escape a Totalitarian theocratic takeover in Afghanistan. We owe Afghanistan that much.

So what ingredient do you imagine would have kept the Taliban away, when the last two years have seen a massive resurgence in their military capability and political appeal among large portions of the country?

NATO failed to build up a viable, democratic government for 20 years. Why do you imagine they would suddenly succeed at that?

 

[74x12]

What do you believe I am defending?

The Biden administration.

Here's a general tip when talking about people: In my opinion, it is generally unproductive for discussion to lump a bunch of people you've never talked to or even know into a huge group of "they" and then ascribe motivations and beliefs to them without having even the slightest idea what they want or believe.

It's generally fine to ascribe collective motivations to institutions or specific organizations, and to ascribe collective beliefs to people grouped together by common political ideology or religion, but as soon as you depart from these relatively easy-to-define categories, you are going to depart from observable reality rather quickly.

For example, where do you get the idea from that refugees from Afghanistan "hate us so much" and that "us" includes American and European civilians who have nothing at all to do with the actions of NATO or its allied warlords? Have you ever actually talked to one of these refugees?

I have, and many of those I've talked to just want to live in peace, in a place that neither oppresses or persecutes them nor puts them in danger. Quite a few of them, however, have given up on the idea that Afghanistan could ever be that kind of place. I've talked to people who were basically raised in refugee camps, and have never even seen their country of origin in the past decades.

Treating these people all like Taliban supporters or potential terrorists is, I feel, not only bigoted, but frankly cruel.

I don't know if you read what I said correctly. But in general I agree with you. I also agree that they are not likely to be Taliban supporters. They fled because of the Taliban that Biden allowed to take over. In my opinion they should be treated very well.

I've heard this slogan many, many times. In my experience, this falls apart on two levels:

• being able to deploy aid and support that's helpful and effective
• being willing to deploy aid and support in the first place

So far, I have never seen people claiming to want to help people "in their own land" actually willing to put their money where their mouth is - almost always, their "help" has been in the form of symbolic gestures at best, and nonexistent at worst.

European and US development aid is in a lot of cases either misguided, or a back channel subsidy for domestic companies (such as "helping" farmers by supplying them with American-produced seeds and American-produced tractors, rather than supporting people in building up an agricultural infrastructure adapted to their unique needs).

Well first of all I'm not rich. I do occasionally donate to causes but I don't have much money; especially right now. But this is what I'm really talking about. USA spends billions on foreign aide to various countries that hate us and they use that money on things that don't benefit poor people at all. So we need to look at better ways of helping the poor around the world with the money we are already spending. Secondly, in the case of the Haitians coming over the border for example; they will have to be put on welfare programs which cost money. Why not use money to help build up Haiti itself? Much better solutions exist to just open border policies like liberals seem to love.

The US has dodged that obligation for 20 years already, I do not expect them to live up to it within the next decades, either.

Well clearly not!

What you suggest is a continuation of the NATO occupation of Afghanistan, perhaps indefinitely.

I suggest finishing the job and not leaving the Afghanis to the tender mercies of the Taliban. I believe a better solution is obtainable but has been ignored or denied on purpose so far. I suggest that even continuing occupation is preferable to what Biden has done. In fact it had been months since a US soldier had died in Afghanistan until Biden botched everything and apparently allowed a suicide bomber to approach the check point.

So you would suggest the US turn on one of its primary allies in the region?
How do you think that would play out in Pakistan, or internationally - particularly given Pakistan's already fairly close relationship with China? Do you actually believe a government caves in to the demands of a foreign invader just because that invader happens to be their nominal ally?

They would be forced to give in without all out war. China is busy elsewhere. China is actually afraid of the USA more than they let on and Biden's weakness has emboldened them lately. What a shame because China is in my view similar to Germany or Japan at the beginning ww2 looking for places to expand.

So what ingredient do you imagine would have kept the Taliban away, when the last two years have seen a massive resurgence in their military capability and political appeal among large portions of the country?

NATO failed to build up a viable, democratic government for 20 years. Why do you imagine they would suddenly succeed at that?

Again I have to point out how we dealt with ISIS in Syria and Iraq. It wasn't easy. They were apparently very powerful; they seemed unstoppable. They were very effective fighters because they don't fear death. They were all martyrs. So their success is why they declared a Caliphate in the first place. The point here is that the Taliban needed to be stopped just like ISIS. Biden made the Afghani defense force seem pathetic and blamed them for everything; but from other sources we learned they did put up a fight. Many of them died; they just needed more support. The fact is we could have continued to support them and help out as much as possible even if we didn't go into Pakistan like I would really like to have seen.

So in any case if I were president I don't see myself abandoning Afghanistan like we have done. I don't think Trump would have done it this way either. He's too proud so he would not allow it to happen like this. On the other hand Biden seems to have no sense of shame. Maybe he's just old and easily controlled by other democrats who are really pulling the strings. It definitely seems that way. It seems as if they want to use and abuse him and then just toss him aside.

 

[Twilight Hue]

No, USA has blood on it's hands now as the song says because the Taliban flag flies over Afghanistan. We betrayed Afghanistan. We betrayed a lot of allies. For this America will suffer and pay a price. He even left the service dogs. He made Americans pay for the passage back from Afghanistan even though the whole mess is his fault in the first place. It doesn't get any more insane than this.

Many Americans, Brits and others are appalled.

Democrat controlled mainstream news just wants people to forget about it all and move on to other stuff like vaccine mandates or whatever other divisive thing Biden can cook up; but we're not going to forget what he did to Afghanistan.

The military industrial complex has a new war cooking up with China so they don't need Afghanistan anymore to justify their existence and their expenses. They left all that equipment for the Taliban because that way they can sell new equipment to the US military. Disgusting. They always have to have a war don't they? So they just leave all that hard work and sacrifice of American soldiers who actually cared about Afghanistan and died there to defeat the Taliban. They just threw it away because now they can go have a cold war with China and make a lot of money off weapon contracts for that!

I see history repeating itself the same as when the Taliban was last in charge.

I do agree however the pullout was likely more due to China as mission parameters change in terms of combat readiness.