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Symbolism and Genesis

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Treasure Hunter, Jan 24, 2021.

  1. Treasure Hunter

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    Symbolism
    Symbolism is more fundamental than narrative. If there is a mismatch between symbol and narrative, it is the narrative that needs correcting.

    Experiences and ideas (which are articulated experiences) are associated with food/drink (appealing) and serpent/snake (repulsive). Similarly, sources of ideas can be represented in the same way.

    Back to Genesis
    In Genesis 2-3, the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil, or more accurately the Tree of the Knowledge of Duality, represents Christ or the Son of Man. The traditional narrative says that a serpent manipulates Eve into eating the forbidden fruit, which violates the serpent symbol. Eve would not be moved to action by that symbol.

    Now, the idea represented by the fruit in the narrative is associated with an experience of death avoidance:
    “You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. “For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

    Punishment is associated with pain which is associated with death. Both Adam and Eve were traumatically punished and therefore the promise of death avoidance would likely be interpreted as a lie by Adam and Eve. With this realization, along with the symbolic associations described previously, someone can begin to uncover the real story.
     
  2. SalixIncendium

    SalixIncendium अहम् ब्रह्मास्मि
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    I see you posted this in a debates forum. Was there something you wished to debate? Are you waiting for someone to tell you that you're wrong and why? Or did you just want to share with the world your views on the symbolism in Genesis?
     
  3. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I believe what is fundamental to the understanding of Genesis and other ancient narratives that evolved from oral stories and traditions is it was how these ancient tribes and cultures as the nature of world at that time. Often moral lessons in fables were very much apart of these narratives. Interpretation and symbolism is more an evolved understanding of the text to be relevant to the changing world.
     
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  4. wellwisher

    wellwisher Active Member

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    The tree of knowledge of good and evil is symbolic of law. Law tells us how to behave so we can avoid evil and do what is defined as good. Law also contain enforcement that helps one learn through fear.

    Before the tree of knowledge of good and evil, Adam and Eve had natural instinct; paradise. Natural instinct could do the same thing as law, but it worked without having to formally learn instinct via fear, since instinct was innate, already. If instinct moved you its was legal based on instinct.

    The problem with law is that the vast majority of law is defined by humans, and not God. Instinct is different being a synthesis of optimized experience over long periods of time. The human lawmakers often have partisan bias, and self serving agendas. This makes the laws less than optimized for all, compared to natural instinct, which was the same for all.

    For example, in the newly elected US government,characters like Pelosi and Schumer now make the laws. Both of these leaders, during the last presidency, displayed an uncanny ability to be pathological liars; Russian collusion delusion. With this in mind, all the new knowledge of good and evil; new laws, created, will be impacted by the bias of their two faced lying temperaments. Such laws may include censor of freedom of speech, which in not good. Free speech can neutralize lies and may be seen as evil to the evil.

    When Eve than Adam ate of the tree of law, this would screw social things up, and cause death to increase, since anyone in power could now try to perpetuate their power, with biased and self serving law. Instinct was not set up to be personal piggy bank of a biased person with a self serving agenda in a position of power.

    Eve was led astray, because law, under optimized conditions, would allow one to know good and evil ,so one could choose good. But humans, having lost natural instinct; tree of life is sealed, could not figure out how to optimize law, as well as instinct. The result is the death penalty appears, due to self serving laws, designed for individuals, and not for everyone.
     
  5. Treasure Hunter

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    Are you sure that instinct is purely of God, or purely of the good?
     
  6. Treasure Hunter

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    Christendom has built its church on top of the the traditional interpretation of Genesis 2-3. If that narration is given by an unreliable narrator, then the foundation is sand rather than rock.

    The idea is that we are all descendants of Adam. If Adam is the unreliable narrator, then he is also an unreliable receiver. Perhaps there is more meaning to the story.

     
  7. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    Simply instinct is an intimate natural part of the evolved behavior of all life more manifest in advance life forms. It is apart of our natural auto pilot.
     
  8. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    The account we read today, although ancient traditions, assumed its present form during the Babylonian exile. One must distinguish between the form of portrayal and the content that is portrayed. Scripture would not wish to inform about how the different species of plant life gradually appeared or how the sun and the moon and the stars were established. Its purpose ultimately would be to say one thing: God created the world.
    The Bible is thus the story of God's struggle with human beings to make himself understandable to them over the course of time; but it is also the story of their struggle to seize hold of God over the course of time. Hence the theme of creation is not set down once for all in one place; rather, it accompanies Israel throughout its history, and, indeed, the whole Old Testament is a journeying with the Word of God.

    Do the math. The numbers three, four, seven and ten dominate. The words 'God said' appear ten times, anticipating the ten commandments. The number that governs the whole is seven, the rhythm of the universe, Creation is oriented to the sabbath the sign of the covenant between God and humankind.
    The image of the serpent is taken from the Eastern fertility cults. Plunge yourself into the current of life, into its delirium and its ecstasy, partake of its immortality presented temptation to Israel in exile.

    excerpts from 'In The Beginning' a Catholic understanding of the story of creation and the fall.
     
  9. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    All this is fine and good, but remains a later interpretive theological view of the Roman Church and to a degree mainstream Protestant beliefs.

    The reality and the facts remains Genesis and its origins reflect the world view of ancient cultures evolved older than Christianity going back to Sumerian, and not remotely in the manner of how it was later interpreted by traditional Christianity. .
     
  10. Treasure Hunter

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    There is more meaning and significance to these stories than worldview. And that meaning is not simply projected onto the stories afterward. It’s been emerging from the beginning of the formation of these stories. In my view.
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Baseless rubbish.
     
  12. Treasure Hunter

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    That idea is a serpent to you which is how it’s first encountered universally.

    The male has access to the Logos and the Gnos. The Gnos is through which he is called by the Father. He then uses the Logos to reject the empty food and to discern which snake he should hold up to the sky and transform into food. That food becomes the food that fills.

    In my view.
     
  13. Wandering Monk

    Wandering Monk Well-Known Member

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    Something that has recently caught my imagination is this: apparently during the Neolithic era, humans began burying their dead covered in red ochre paint.

    Now the name Adam can mean 'red or ruddy. He was created from the dust of the earth, according to Biblical legend. Interestingly, there is a Sumerian myth that the first man was created from dirt mingled with the blood of the god Kingu.

    Beginning to think that these legends are a memory of ancient human burial practices. Or possibly, a symbolic memory of being born covered in blood.
     
  14. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    Of course its represents an interpretative view, just as the redaction and final editing by those who compiled the final texts that we read today.
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    This confirms the concept of an evolved edited, redacted and compiled text over time, and present traditional Christian interpretation has little or nothing to do with the ancient evolved Genesis.
     
  16. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Law would therefore state,.........
    A law for good.
    A law for evil.

    Two states not the same. Would not own the same law.

    Common sense

    Law of good. Equal life. Every presence the same.

    Reasoning. I am thinking for science.

    Natural already exists.

    Law for everything natural.

    Law for good.

    Every body I thesis. From state consciousness. Is from water oxygen state.

    Heavens of life.

    If I thesis evil. Law said is not inside water oxygen conscious place.

    Man did sin.

    Origin sin Satan O mass consuming it's body.

    Man sin changed female space womb by numbers.

    Changed law balance even.

    Made night time burst alight space void vacuum into eve.

    Was irradiated hit by nuclear in my side ribs....

    The female spatial maths change caused it. I then saw my own man image sacrificed in God spirit acts.

    Which I activated as original man scientist

    Not origin of man. Origin of man first satanist scientist.
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon shunyadragon
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    I only agree in the context of the spiritual evolution of humanity over the millennia, and not in justification of any one religion based on one interpretation of ancient text thousand of years old to justify the truth of one religion Christianity or for that matter Judaism nor Islam.

    The meaning and understanding of the evolved text of Genesis only has real meaning in the context of the ancient culture that compiled, edited, and redacted the texts. Later manipulations and interpretations to justify Christianity is distinctly artificial.
     
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