Suspended teen: Nose ring is religious!

[Luminous]

Suspended teen: Nose ring is religious

A 14-year-old's piercing ignites a fierce battle over her right to exercise her religion

What do you think? should the Church of Body Modification be respected as a "serious religion"?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Suspended teen: Nose ring is religious



What do you think? should the Church of Body Modification be respected as a "serious religion"?

I think this case is an excellent example of why a truly secular approach toward religion by government is a good idea: if we give special status to religion, then this either makes any crazy idea permissible as long as it's called "religious", or it puts the government in the position of judging what is and isn't a "proper" religion.

 

[Kerr]

Suspended teen: Nose ring is religious



What do you think? should the Church of Body Modification be respected as a "serious religion"?

I don´t really think anyone should be suspended because of body piercing, even if they are doing it for some very, very weird or strange reason.

 

[Willamena]

I don't think anyone could take it as a "serious religion." But calling it religion will raise eyebrows, and that's perhaps the more significant effect.

 

[blackout]

Not doin' this one again.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/current-events/104002-nose-ring-more-than-fashion-its.html


For anyone who'se interested in what's been said in another thread
on the very same story.

 

[blackout]

I don't think anyone could take it as a "serious religion." But calling it religion will raise eyebrows, and that's perhaps the more significant effect.

Well, just WHAT makes a religion a "serious" religion Patty?

Is it not "serious" enough? as in not "somber" enough?
Too colorful and expressive? not enough "study" and "self denial"?

And why would a "serious" religion count more than a "self expressive" religion?

 

[blackout]

Suspended teen: Nose ring is religious



What do you think? should the Church of Body Modification be respected as a "serious religion"?

And why should her religion not be seen as legitimate?

I sure know no one would stand in defense of mine.

Us socio-religious misfits really need to stand together.

 

[Luminous]

Well, I guess we can stay on the subject of the debate itself...not just the discussion.

The Church of Body Modification is a Religion by the shcool's writen standards, and their rules specify that they make exeptions for religious reasons. The her first amendment rights are clearly being infrindged upon. In my Opinion, CBM could be takken seriously as much as Buddhism. and I agree that there should be no special status for religion...If a theist can do it, i can do it too. So, if the school allows piercings on "religious" grounds..it allows it on MY grounds

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

And why should her religion not be seen as legitimate?

I sure know no one would stand in defense of mine.

Us socio-religious misfits really need to stand together.

I think this touches on what I was trying to get at. I don't think that the question of whether a religion is legitimate or not is a question that the state has any business trying to answer.

And the only way they can get out of having to answer this question is by not giving religion any special consideration at all.

If the rule is reasonable and necessary, then it should be enforced across the board. If it's unnecessary for a person of one particular faith, then it's unnecessary for everyone.

I personally don't think that public schools should be banning any sort of jewelry unless we're talking about safety issues in gym or shop class... but this isn't based on any sort of special regard for this girl's religion.

 

[no-body]

Should you let the rastafari kids smoke pot whenever they want?

I don't know this is one of those things where I can see both sides very clearly and could go either way.

There have to be some standards and dress codes but you have to put it into context so you don't discriminate against people.

"the church of body modification" sounds like it's full of S though like they just started it so they could skirt around standards at school and work.

 

[blackout]

You know, with all of the practically UNANIMOUS threads around here,
stating that Islamic females should be allowed to wear what they want,
under the arguement that FEMALES IN GENERAL should be allowed to wear whatever they want,
I really would expect more of the VERY SAME OUTRAGE
on behalf of this lovely 14 year old young woman.

I'm not sure if I sense a double standard here,
or if maybe
people just seem to feel for some reason I do not understand
that "school systems" trump our constitutional rights.
(in general)

Perhaps someone could set me straight here.

I just want to be clear,
(for those of you so inclined)
no exception for nose pierce= no exception for head scarf.
right?

 

[Smoke]

I think this touches on what I was trying to get at. I don't think that the question of whether a religion is legitimate or not is a question that the state has any business trying to answer.

I agree, and I think the school has taken itself onto shaky ground by deciding to answer it.

Although frankly, I can't see any point to forbidding jewelry, with or without a religious exemption, and if one student can wear a nose ring on religious grounds, I think any student ought to be able to wear one just because she feels like it.

Should you let the rastafari kids smoke pot whenever they want?

At my high school, it would have been rather odd for Rastafari students (if we had had any) not to smoke pot, since most of the student body did.

 

[no-body]

I'm not sure if I sense a double standard here,
or if maybe
people just seem to feel for some reason I do not understand
that "school systems" trump our constitutional rights.
(in general)

Perhaps someone could set me straight here.

I just want to be clear,
(for those of you so inclined)
no exception for nose pierce= no exception for head scarf.
right?

The problem is I don't think this is really about religion just dress code which is another argument all together. They are just dragging religion into it so they have a better chance of winning.

People should check out the church on wikipedia

Church of Body Modification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only real tenet of their "faith" is to wear body modifications for spirituality and "to be individuals" (that really cracks me up)

In regards to work at least they've already gone to court and lost:

In 2002, a member of the Church of Body Modification was fired from a Costco because of an eyebrow ring. When taken to trial, the court ruled in favor of Costco saying that this was not protected under the First Amendment because her religious beliefs did not require her to always wear her eyebrow ring.

 

[Jeremiah]

Suspended teen: Nose ring is religious



What do you think? should the Church of Body Modification be respected as a "serious religion"?

I don't personally; sounds like a weak claim for a religion to me.

But the government respects Mormonism and Scientology as a serious religions; it'd be a bit hypocritical for them not to respect something else of equal or lesser craziness as a "serious religion". Such as the Church of Body Modification.

 

[Duck]

You know, with all of the practically UNANIMOUS threads around here,
stating that Islamic females should be allowed to wear what they want,
under the arguement that FEMALES IN GENERAL should be allowed to wear whatever they want,
I really would expect more of the VERY SAME OUTRAGE
on behalf of this lovely 14 year old young woman.

I'm not sure if I sense a double standard here,
or if maybe
people just seem to feel for some reason I do not understand
that "school systems" trump our constitutional rights.
(in general)

Perhaps someone could set me straight here.

I just want to be clear,
(for those of you so inclined)
no exception for nose pierce= no exception for head scarf.
right?

UV, I agree, there isn't enough outrage regarding the infringement on this girl's, her parent's, and her religion's rights.

For those people who hold that the CBM is "made up" just to get around school dress codes, how ******* dare you judge what is and is not a "serious" religion. You know that you would be the first people to call in the ACLU if forced to conform to the standards of other people because your beliefs were decided to be not "serious" or "made up" for convenience.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Although frankly, I can't see any point to forbidding jewelry, with or without a religious exemption, and if one student can wear a nose ring on religious grounds, I think any student ought to be able to wear one just because she feels like it.

I agree.

If we're in shop class, the wood lathe can snag on a crucifix necklace as easily as a non-religious one. Outside a setting like that, I think that a school should have some latitude to instil proper behaviour in students, but there's nothing improper about having a nose ring.

I've heard the argument that some places don't allow them, so schools should prepare student for this... but many workplaces do allow them, and workers have the option of not working for a company that has policies they don't like.

 

[blackout]

The problem is I don't think this is really about religion just dress code which is another argument all together. They are just dragging religion into it so they have a better chance of winning.

People should check out the church on wikipedia

Church of Body Modification - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The only real tenet of their "faith" is to wear body modifications for spirituality and "to be individuals" (that really cracks me up)

In regards to work at least they've already gone to court and lost:

I really don't care if that really cracks you up.

I am not a member of this church,
but clearly
I GET IT.

So what if you don't.

I don't get mainstream christianity,
I don't get islam,
I don't get a lot of things.

Yet it gives me no right to say their rights are invalid,
because I think think their religion is nutty.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I really don't care if that really cracks you up.

I am not a member of this church,
but clearly
I GET IT.

So what if you don't.

I don't get mainstream christianity,
I don't get islam,
I don't get a lot of things.

Yet it gives me no right to say their rights are invalid,
because I think think their religion is nutty.

I agree... but it's because I think that rights are vested in individuals, not in religions.

 

[blackout]

They've lost.

and so a valid cause is forwarded none.

As others have said,
EVERYONE should be allowed to wear body jewelry/piercings.

If it is not a safety issue...
who cares!

Now how many parents that ALSO want that freedom for their kids,
might just get up and go fight for it,
when they see that an individual here or there,
for whatever reason,
has won.

Whatever it takes to light people's fire.

 

[no-body]

Yet it gives me no right to say their rights are invalid,
because I think think their religion is nutty.

But then it's not really about religion which is my point.

For those people who hold that the CBM is "made up" just to get around school dress codes, how ******* dare you judge what is and is not a "serious" religion. You know that you would be the first people to call in the ACLU if forced to conform to the standards of other people because your beliefs were decided to be not "serious" or "made up" for convenience.

Somebody has to judge these religions in a legal capacity if they are going to claim special rights, or anyone can make a religion at any time just to skirt around laws and rules they don't like.

That could lead to the argument that maybe no religion should have special rights over a secular individual, but that is another discussion.