1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Survivors & Descendants Of Holocaust Victims Condemn Genocide In Gaza

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Sleeppy, Aug 24, 2014.

  1. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,856
    Ratings:
    +16,526
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    So, you don't believe in using self-defense that involves force? I was tempted by this for many years as I have long considered Gandhi to be my "mentor", but history told me that the use of nonviolence has simply not worked way too much of the time. It could all too easily lead to totalitarian regimes because many people simply ain't that moral and will steal you blind and kill you and your entire family without hesitation as we saw with Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc.
     
  2. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,856
    Ratings:
    +16,526
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Nothing much surprises me any more.
     
  3. CynthiaCypher

    CynthiaCypher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Messages:
    6,610
    Ratings:
    +470
    Communist soviets doesn't surprise you?
     
  4. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,410
    Ratings:
    +276
    Great.

    So you are okay with violent people to take over and rule your lives. :clap
     
  5. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +406
    Ok. While we're on common sense.. Do you agree with, or support everything that your government does? Do you believe you should be liable for everything that your government leaders do? -- The leadership in Gaza has been having obvious complications, as well. Governance of the Gaza Strip - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Israel can tell entire families and neighborhoods to leave their homes within 20 minutes of bombing them, but it is not a realistic expectation. These people don't have many options to go anywhere, and even when they are in UN areas, they are being bombed and shelled (with the excuse that Hamas terrorists are everywhere, using everyone as shields). It doesn't matter what other countries are doing; what matters is what is right. If you honestly believe Israel is doing right by these people, you will be unpleasantly surprised, and your children also.

    Actually, I have concern for all people, whether they are Jews or otherwise.. That is obvious in all of my posts. When someone says "Israel has a right to defend itself", I acknowledge that everyone has a right to defend themselves. The people in Gaza will want to defend themselves from Israel's indiscriminate war tactics, and many of them will want to avenge their dead. Israel also has an Iron Dome defense, which Gaza does not have. The number of civilians deaths in Israel will always pale in comparison to those of Gaza. There are about a handful of civilian deaths in Israel, whereas the number of children killed in Gaza alone, constitutes 100 times that amount.
     
  6. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,410
    Ratings:
    +276
    Why are you blaming Israel?

    Hamas rejected every ceasefire.

    They are the ones firing from civilian areas and using their own people as human shields.

    All the deaths are on their heads.
     
  7. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +406

    Hamas doesn't speak for every person in Gaza, especially not children. God will determine where the blood rests.
     
  8. Godobeyer

    Godobeyer the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2010
    Messages:
    12,702
    Ratings:
    +3,384
    Religion:
    Islam
    believing that more than 2000 civilians killed and more than 10 000 injured used is completely insane ,so ALL victimes killed because they used as human shields , and faking the reality !!!
     
    #88 Godobeyer, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  9. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Ratings:
    +5,566
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    You keep pointing out what they should not do but give no clear suggestion as to what they should do. Bombing was the last resort that was forced on them by Hamas as I see it.
     
  10. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +406
    You've only allowed those like Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc to be recreated and hidden next door to you. You haven't prevented any deaths. You haven't educated anyone. If you continue to murder, you will assure that your children are murderers, and that they are murdered. The Tanakh tells you this, but it also confuses you by telling you to continue what your forefathers have done.. And so your history is full of war, and so are your prophecies.

    The only way to prevent immorality is to educate, and to care for God's children (food, shelter- basic necessities). Love God with all your heart, soul, and mind, and you will take care of His creation. You are your brother's keeper.
     
  11. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Ratings:
    +5,566
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    So during WWII would you have just verbally condemned the Nazi regime for killing Jews?

    As long as their are violent people/groups in the world, pacifism makes no realistic sense.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,856
    Ratings:
    +16,526
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Elections have consequences, and like it or not, what is voted in therefore is ultimately accountable to the people who voted as such. The people of Gaza voted in a known terrorist organization as there was no secret of Hamas' intents in regards to Israel.

    Actually is it realistic and many Palestinians are undoubtedly alive today because they took the warnings seriously.


    And why is that supposedly? Do you honestly think we haven't thought this through very carefully? Do you somehow believe we are so ignorant to not understand what's at stake and what the consequences may be?

    That's a lie. If Israel's response was "indiscriminate", the numbers killed would be much higher than what it is. As someone else said, probably most other countries would respond to Hamas by using carpet-bombing techniques, which Israel has avoided.

    And if Hamas had used at least some of that cement that was donated to build bomb shelters for their own civilians instead of terror-tunnels to attack Israelis the death count would probably be less.

    Name any war fought whereas there's any attempt to equalize the body-count as a part of either country's strategy.

    Listen, to make myself clear, I hate this war, and nothing would please me more than to see peace both there and here. And the solution is very clear: if Hamas stops its attack on Israel, Israel in turn, as promised and delivered, will stop its military response. If Hamas then recognizes Israel, states a peaceful intent, and removes its missiles, there not only will be peace, there will be a lot to gained by both Palestinians and Israelis alike.

    If Hamas continues to refuse, then Israel really has no choice but to try its best to take out Hamas' offensive capabilities.
     
  13. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +406
    I don't know the full extent of Israel's capabilities, or responsibilities- they would need to determine their own path. If Israel continues bombing indiscriminately, it will not serve their purpose to protect their citizens; it will guarantee that the problem persists generations into the future, and that many more Israeli soldiers are asked to lay down their lives.
     
  14. CMike

    CMike Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2012
    Messages:
    5,410
    Ratings:
    +276
    We have no idea how many were killed or injured.

    The sources are the "palestinian officials" whom lie.

    If the supposed 2000 civilians would have heeded the warnings and not been there they wouldn't have been killed.

    Also if Hamas didn't use civilians as human shields there would be much fewer injured.

    It's ALL on Hamas.
     
  15. Sleeppy

    Sleeppy Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

    Joined:
    Oct 29, 2011
    Messages:
    5,758
    Ratings:
    +406
    No. I would've prevented WW2 from occurring.
     
  16. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Ratings:
    +5,566
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    I see those deaths as Hamas' fault. They should be ashamed at what they've done for the people they are supposed to represent.
     
  17. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,856
    Ratings:
    +16,526
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Complete, unadulterated nonsense matched by a pathetic lie. We haven't "murdered" Palestinians, if you actually know what "murder" actually means. Secondly, if we were to stop fighting, we die. Are you so naive to actually believe that if we just lay down our arms that the likes of Hamas and Hezbollah would just leave us alone? Do you really honestly believe that?

    Oh, cut the bigotry. Which peoples or religion hasn't been involved in war, whether it be by their own choosing or not? If you knew anything about Jewish theology, you would know that we cannot conduct wars of offense unless ordered by a prophet, and since we don't believe there's been any prophets in over 2000 years as the prophetic age has long passed, then we can only defend ourselves.

    That's quite a bigoted assumption on your part that we don't try to operate out of morality and don't love God and God's children. Do some studying, and please stop and actually think about what you post, OK?
     
    #97 metis, Aug 26, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2014
  18. metis

    metis aged ecumenical anthropologist

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2013
    Messages:
    34,856
    Ratings:
    +16,526
    Religion:
    ecumenical & naturalistic Catholic
    Really? :facepalm:
     
  19. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Ratings:
    +5,566
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist


    We all want everybody to be educated, understanding and non-violent and the world to always have been run fairly and justly. I think the world is getting closer but until then evil violent forces will crop up and the good people may have to use force as their last resort.
     
  20. George-ananda

    George-ananda Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 3, 2012
    Messages:
    15,144
    Ratings:
    +5,566
    Religion:
    Advaita and Spiritualist and Pantheist
    Well those that do know all the details have determined strategic strikes are necessary. You keep alluding to better options but we are waiting to hear what hasn't already been tried and thought of.


    Bombing indiscriminately??
     
Loading...