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Featured Sunnah

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by Rival, Jan 13, 2021 at 5:25 AM.

  1. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Let me ask you.

    1. Do you think Islam is "facing Mecca and praying"? Is that it?
    2. Do you think Islam teaches that Mecca was always the Qibla?
    3. What is your understanding of Islam? Is it all about rituals?

    I think the answers to these are right there on this very page. This is just to get it in your own words.
     
  2. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    That is good, to have "God as your Master". My Master is also God.
     
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  3. danieldemol

    danieldemol Well-Known Member
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    1. I think that a part of what I would refer to as the Muhammadan religion is"facing Mecca and praying", to me Islam just means submitting to God, so I differentiate between the two (Ie Islam and Muhammadanism).
    2. No, hence the point about are they the same Islams (or put another way, is Muhammadanism the same as Islam)
    3. My understanding of Islam is that it is submission to God, not Muhammadanism.
     
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  4. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    I'm not saying they are not Muslims, bro, I'm not sure where you are taking this? I'm just honestly asking if they want to go beyond the bare minimum, and if they have no sunnah, how do they know what is and isn't acceptable?

    For example, let's say Noah wants to go above and beyond what is required of him. He wants to jump off the ark when they land and pray in a particular fashion. Then he wants to drink some juice but he wants to bless the juice.

    How is Noah to know that his method of prayer is acceptable before G-d and also his blessings and his juice?
     
    #64 Rival, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:12 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021 at 5:18 AM
  5. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Daniel. I think you have answered it all to everyone in this thread. Maybe you have no clue how much of it you have answered with this simple three points you have put up there.

    I shall concede and withdraw. Apologies.
     
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  6. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    I understand.

    Noah should know, God hears him, not his recitation. Thus, his prayer should be just prayer and not some set of words written down and recited like a mantra.

    I hope you understand sis.
     
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  7. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    I was surprised you read so much in my reply, that was not there. And you missed the things that were there. Hence I'll explain:
    1: New groups do make often the claim "we are the best, original, source" etc. Just observation, no judgment. Especially because I agree here
    2: And of course it is good PR, people love this kind of verses. My Master did the same. Any good Master can claim this. I won't object
    3: To be complete, I did add "not all PR is truth-based". Just a fact (we had a few so called Jesus' on RF, not all truth-based)

    * So, the way I phrased it was actually not a shot at all. Above that, it was just a neutral observation I gave, as I explained above;)

    * And I do believe (as I already explained in my posts) that "Islam teaches that it is the original religion as practiced by Adam, Noah, Abraham", and that this is correct. I would start doubting Islam IF they claimed the opposite. Islam teaches that Adam, Noah, Abraham practiced the original religion too, the Koran is giving thereby quite some credit to the Bible I would say. I like that a lot. I love it when one Religion gives so much credit to the other Religions. Very healthy, and that is the way to make Islam the Religion of Peace.

    So, I hope that these few extra lines clarify enough what I meant and what I believe (how I see it today).
     
    #67 stvdv, Jan 14, 2021 at 5:32 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021 at 5:38 AM
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  8. atanu

    atanu Member
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    Sir. I am talking about ‘surrender’ being the ultimate teaching of religions.

    ...
     
  9. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Now I think I am gonna go completely irrelevant. :) Rival, please reprimand me.

    • Islam does not claim it is the original religion. It claims to be the only. Thus, even if one believes in it or not, every single theology that came up in the entire world are all either offshoots of Islam, or Islam itself in a flavour.
    • Islam means peace and submission. Its not an "Ism" or an "ity". Its not named after a person.
    • If you read the Quran, it does not claim anywhere to be the religion of Muhammed. It claims that Muhammed came to reiterate existing monotheism.
    • It does not claim to be a superior theology but the only one that ever existed. Its not like someone coming up yesterday saying I am the God you must worship and has always have been. Muhammed is mentioned 4 times in the Quran, and he is absolutely human, a meagre servant.
    • The Quran does not give credence to the Bible. It, and the Bible, both give credence to Adam, Noah, Abraham etc. There is a big difference. But it depends on your naturalism and if you consider Muhammed to be a copy artist and a liar.
    Maybe there is more.
     
  10. Israel Khan

    Israel Khan Well-Known Member

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    That is the problem, you are addressing one aspect of all the religions only and saying that it is the ultimate teaching of religions, which firstly doesn't apply to all religions, and secondly is not the only teachings in these religions. Also, whether "surrender" is the ultimate teaching of these religions is debatable. For instance, in Christianity, the ultimate teaching would most likely be "God's love for us".
     
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  11. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    Islam means peace and submission. Its not an "Ism"

    But it still has the 3 letters "Ism" in it, and that is quite special, because it's 5 letters total
    But, if I am correct then "la" in arabic means "No", so I won't debate you on this one
    (Must be a little joke of Allah, He just had to put in "Ism" ... or coincidence ... nah)
     
    #71 stvdv, Jan 14, 2021 at 6:58 AM
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021 at 9:35 AM
  12. loverofhumanity

    loverofhumanity Well-Known Member
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    If one looks at the sun with respect to the days of the week then we can say there is a sun which appears each day, so seven Suns. But if one look at the sun it is one alone.

    So with the Suns of Truth. They appear to differ outwardly, but inwardly, They are one and the same.

    So in the outward appearances we see Muhammad, Christ, Buddha, Moses and Baha’u’llah as different but in reality They are represent the same truth and reality. They all teach good character and heavenly virtues. In this respect They are one and the same and always existed.
     
  13. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    What? What I meant by saying its not an "ism" to show you that its not Buddhism, Hinduism, or any thing like that which is a made up name. Islam is a description. A process. The word itself shows it.

    And it does not break down to syllables like you had done mate. It doesn't make sense.

    Over and out.
     
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  14. stvdv

    stvdv Veteran Member

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    :D

    I was just a bit creative today. Don't sweat it.;)
     
  15. Jacques de Molay

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    It's a false claim, as is the Islamic claim that Islam is an Abrahamic religion. It is NOT.

    The claim to being an "Abrahamic religion" is based on Abraham as the Father of Ishmael. Ishmael was Abraham's son with his hand-maiden, Hagar. Abraham's wife Sarah was jealous of Hagar, so she banished Hagar and her son.

    Ishmael is generally considered to be the "Father" (or progenitor) of the Bedouin (Arab) peoples.

    However, Islam did NOT exist until approximately 700 A.D. That's more than 1,200 years. So Ishmael was NEVER a Muslim. No one was, until around 700 A.D.

    So Islam is NOT an "Abrahamic" religion.
     
  16. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    It is an Abrahamic religion in the sense that it claims Abraham et al. as prophets and belongs to broadly the same monotheistic tradition.
     
  17. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Haha. Alright alright. Cheers.
     
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  18. firedragon

    firedragon Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. Who claimed that "Islam is an abrahamic religion"?
     
  19. Jacques de Molay

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    They can claim anything they want, but that doesn't make it factually accurate.

    Again...Abraham lived more than 1,000 years before Mohammed claimed to have his visions that led to writing the Koran.

    There's nothing in scripture that justifies claiming Abraham as a Prophet for Islam (which did not exist until 700 AD).
     
  20. Rival

    Rival Veteran Member
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    Muslims believe Abraham was a prophet and claim to worship the same G-d he did. There's no dispute about that. That makes it an Abrahamic religion. I could say the same about Christianity - that Christians are not Jews and have nothing to do with Abraham whatsoever, but that's not what 'Abrahamic means'. So Maybe you can stop inventing your own definition. Abrahamic religions claim the G-d of Abraham.
     
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