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Featured Sun created on Genesis Day 4, Plants on Day 3?

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Suave, Jan 1, 2022.

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  1. God's Love

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  2. Volcanic Gas

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  3. The Genesis Creation Account's Pure Mythology.

    8 vote(s)
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  4. A complex array of Lasers and Mirrors.

    1 vote(s)
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  5. Don't know/Unsure

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  1. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Third heaven is singular.
     
  2. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    Psalms 104 is another account of Genesis 1. Here are a few side by sides. It always helps to look at other places in the Bible.

    I personally don't think Genesis 1 is describing the creation of the earth but a reconstruction of the earth after a cataclysm.


    Genesis 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
    Psalms 104:30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.
    Psalms 104:6 Thou coveredst it with the deep as with a garment: the waters stood above the mountains.

    Genesis 1:9 And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so.
    Psalms 104: (7-9) At thy rebuke they fled; at the voice of thy thunder they hasted away. 8 They go up by the mountains; they go down by the valleys unto the place which thou hast founded for them. 9 Thou hast set a bound that they may not pass over; that they turn not again to cover the earth.

    Genesis 1: (11-12) 11 And God said, Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb yielding seed, and the fruit tree yielding fruit after his kind, whose seed is in itself, upon the earth: and it was so. 12 And the earth brought forth grass, and herb yielding seed after his kind, and the tree yielding fruit, whose seed was in itself, after his kind: and God saw that it was good.
    Psalms 104:14 He causeth the grass to grow for the cattle, and herb for the service of man: that he may bring forth food out of the earth;

    Genesis 1:14 And God said, Let there be lights in the firmament of the heaven to divide the day from the night; and let them be for signs, and for seasons, and for days, and years:
    Psalms 104:19 He appointed the moon for seasons: the sun knoweth his going down.


    These are just a few comparisons. I'm sure there are more. I hope this helps.
     
  3. IndigoChild5559

    IndigoChild5559 Loving God and my neighbor as myself.

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    Just took a peak at psalm 104, and I can't see what you are saying, sorry.
     
  4. jhwatts

    jhwatts Member

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    You need to actually read it and not just take a peak. I post several side by side comparisons.
     
  5. sealchan

    sealchan Well-Known Member

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    Well, the story talks about days and nights as well...with no sun and moon. To me, I think this suggested an understanding of time separate from the sun and moon.

    Even Tolkien had trees and plants growing under starlight before the coming of the Sun and Moon in his creation story (The Silmarillion).

    Maybe it was only a day so...
     
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  6. Bree

    Bree Active Member

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    would you not agree that the sun is a source of light?

    right at the beginning of the genesis creation account, on day 1, the first things mentioned is the source of light that God created.
    Gen1:3 And God said: “Let there be light.” Then there was light.+ 4 After that God saw that the light was good, and God began to divide the light from the darkness. 5 God called the light Day, but the darkness he called Night.+ And there was evening and there was morning, a first day

    therefore the sun was already existing.
     
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  7. Suave

    Suave Simulated character

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    Agreed. "Most scientists think Earth’s early atmosphere looked similar to that of today—dominated by nitrogen and carbon dioxide, largely transparent, and having clouds scattered across the globe. This view contrasts with RTB’s model where Earth’s early atmosphere was translucent (rather than transparent) such that the Sun, Moon, and stars could not be seen regularly from Earth’s surface. One recent paper provides some evidence that supports RTB’s model.

    And God said, “Let there be light,” and there was light…. And there was evening, and there was morning—the first day….
    And God said, “Let there be lights in the vault of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark sacred times, and days and years,… And there was evening, and there was morning—the fourth day. (Genesis 1:3, 5b; 1:14, 19)

    RTB’s creation model takes these two miracles, on creation days one and four, as describing two different changes to the atmosphere. Day one saw a clearing of the atmosphere so that sunlight could now reach Earth’s surface. Day four brought a further clearing so that the objects providing the light could be seen from Earth’s surface. This interpretation means that between the two “days,” Earth’s atmosphere was hazy and/or cloudy like a rainy day (or a really smoggy day for those big city dwellers).

    Most markers of Earth’s early atmosphere indicate that it consisted of carbon dioxide, water vapor, and nitrogen—similar to today’s atmosphere, minus the oxygen. If so, one would reasonably expect the atmosphere to look like it does today, with clouds scattered over the globe but otherwise clear skies. Yet one additional component on the early Earth may have led to a hazy, translucent atmosphere.

    A team of scientists studying 2.65 billion-year-old geological features in South Africa found evidence that methane and other organic materials played an important role in the planet’s atmosphere prior to the great oxygenation event.1 Just like on Titan (one of Saturn’s moons) today, these organics likely produced a haze in the atmosphere that would have shielded Earth’s surface from a sizable amount of the Sun’s radiation. One outstanding question pertains to how much haze the organics would produce. In their search for an answer, the team found two stable states of methane concentrations—a higher one that produced a significant haze and a lower one that produced very little. The fact that methane exists in these two stable states leads to a plausible scenario that matches the RTB model.

    Early in Earth’s history there was a larger methane concentration. Photosynthetic life was also present, which introduced more oxygen to the atmosphere. Though oxygen reacts with the methane, it also reacts with many other things throughout the planet’s atmosphere and interior. Consequently, early Earth would consume oxygen faster than it was produced; thus, preventing early atmospheric oxygen levels from rising. So simply having oxygen-producing life present on the planet wouldn’t have significantly lowered the methane concentration.

    However, by about 2.5 billion years ago, Earth’s oxygen sinks had filled up and the atmospheric oxygen increased dramatically (during the great oxygenation event), causing the methane concentration level to drop and go from a hazy to a clear state. It remains in this clear state to the present day.

    Although plausible, not enough scientific data exists to validate or falsify this scenario. Since the prevailing view of the early atmosphere stands in contrast to the RTB model, it represents a fruitful arena to test creation model predictions."

    Aubrey L. Zerkle et al., “A Bistable Organic-rich Atmosphere on the Neoarchaean Earth,” Nature Geoscience (published online March 18, 2012), doi:10.1038/ngeo1425, Browse Articles | Nature Geoscience.
    A Hazy Atmosphere on Early Earth
     
  8. SA Huguenot

    SA Huguenot Well-Known Member

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    It does not say the Sun, Moon and Stars were made on the 4th day, but the Light of the Sun and Moon.
    The Sun and Moon was made in the beginning with the earth, and Light appeared when the Sun ignited due to Nuclear fussion.
    on the 4th day the Sun ignited to its fullest, and for the first time reflectd light from the Moon.

    This was where Emmanuel Kant got his Nebular theory from, something science found to be in harmony with the observed universe in 1925.
    I always like to see the growls when the atheists learn that Emmanuel Kant took Genesis in 1755, and came up with the Nebular theory.
    Whatch this spot... one or two will go crazy again.
    nebular.jpg

    For those that would like to see what Kant wrote!
    http://users.clas.ufl.edu/burt/spaceshotsairheads/kantuniversalnaturalhistory.pdf
     
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  9. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    The days are symbolic not literal as new life on this planet is born every day with unique DNA. Stars, suns and planets are still being created in the universe so we are still in the 6 days of creation. The 7th day is when all life on planet Earth ceases to exist.
    Verse 2 in Genesis 1 is the reason the Bible was written. Earth exists in the first scripture. Then Earth becomes "Without form", "And the earth was waste and empty, and darkness was on the face of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the face of the waters." This planet ends in a man made thermonuclear world war holocaust wasteland where all species of life that God created has died, This represents the 7th day when God rests because there is nothing left on Earth that is living, so no new life is being created here. The world is covered with nuclear waste, fallout from fusion missiles made from nuclear waste.
    God still exists above this planet. Water is a symbolic word for people in the Bible like a nation is also called a tree.
    God views what man did to life on Earth and the Spirit of God is moved to warn humans of our man made destruction caused by belief in the lies of 1 dead man named Abraham that invented his own religion to exalt himself and greed. Jesus was sent to save the world by stopping belief in Abraham thus preventing the final religious war that causes the demise of Homo Sapien Sapien. But the sons of Abraham killed Jesus so the result is darkness, earthquakes ( from nuclear blasts) and a storm which brings nuclear winter, the frost of heaven gendered by man spoken of in Job reserved to end it. No life survives that vast Ice Age of total specie extinction. The bottomless pit, death, will be filled because there will be nothing left to die.
     
    #89 Triumph, Mar 10, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  10. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Keep in mind, the account was written by the author as if he was an observer.

    So actually, light was observed on Day 1.

    (Where was that light from? The Sun...would it not be part of “the Heavens“ created in Genesis 1:1?)

    The Earth at the time was covered by thick clouds. Because of this, the sources of that light weren’t seen until Day 4, when the heavy cloud cover began to dissipate.
     
  11. Hockeycowboy

    Hockeycowboy Well-Known Member
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    Ну, моя жена не русская, но она красивая и согревает меня!
     
  12. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    The Hebrew text is a parallel to Luke 1:31. In the latter text, the angels reveal to Mary that God has planted a seed ----identical to the original seeds planted in the earth (day 3) ----in the garden of her body such that the seed will automatically gestate at the proper time. Nothing from outside the soil of her body is needed to make the seed gestate and sprout. It will sprout from a closed womb (Exodus 13:2) when its good and ready.

    The original seeds spoken of in Genesis are spiritual seeds like the seed that births Mary's firstborn; they're seeds related to a clonal colony. They were already in the earth from the beginning just as the seed that birthed Jesus was already in Mary from the beginning. And just like the seed that birthed Jesus, they don't need a spade to open the womb; they don't need rain (the cosmological allegory for semen) nor light to enter into the earth-mother since at this point, prior to the fall into sexual reproduction, every living thing is conceived through virgin, asexual, mechanisms.

    Someone reading the text in Hebrew would note that the text of Genesis 1:11 is a victorious proclamation (like Luke 1:31) proclaiming that asexual life came prepackaged in such a manner that sexual mechanisms needn't apply nor be applied. The Hebrew text doesn't say "Let the earth bring forth grass." It says, "And behold, thou shalt conceive in thy womb and bring forth . . .." The word in the cross-hairs is דשא ----and it has a tav-suffix תדשא ----which means the earth "will eventually" bring forth at the proper time. It doesn't say bring forth now, but merely, ala Luke 1:31, that the birth is imminent: it's going to occur without some swinging Richard or damn Adam fathering fallen offspring.



    John
     
    #92 John D. Brey, Mar 10, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
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  13. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    Jesus said his kingdom is not here and that he is from above us. Jesus left this planet in a physical body to go to the kingdom of God, the universe, to prepare a place for his followers. He did not float into outer space, he left in an aircraft that can travel the universe to another planet able to support human biology as God knows what we need to survive. Jesus is preparing a kingdom on that planet that also has an atmosphere, heaven. Jesus taught not to love this planet. If a person's family is not selected for survival but you are then you have to hate the fact, they refused to follow Jesus and not forfeit your opportunity for salvation . Jesus does not want people choosing to die on Earth with their doomed family instead of attaining a blessed eternal life with Jesus on a new planet. One should hate themselves for refusing to leave since nothing can be done at to save them and it will be suicide to stay. If people love you then they want you to survive and leave with Jesus. One has to hate this life to attain the promised life. Put your faith and trust in Jesus the Savior. People will hate themselves for leaving their family but this is what Jesus meant when he said you have to hate your family and yourself. Be in opposition to their choice not to believe in God and accept you will hate yourself for not being able to lead them to Christ.
    Humans destroy this planet making it unable to support biological life. There is not going to be any magic wand waving making this planet restored, Earth remains a lifeless monument proving what happens to a planet when life on it is destructive to other life refusing to obey the command from God not to kill. Use that nuclear sword then die with it as no one can control the king of kings, Radiation.
    One of the most difficult lessons from our teacher Jesus is Jesus is the Son of God and not the expected killer Son of Man Christ. That Son of Man military commander with nukes is coming like a thief in the night to destroy and take what does not belong to him, your life. He does not warn how to avoid being killed but the Son of God tells us to flee to the mountains, hide in rocks because radiation does not penetrate rock. Do not take anything with you because you will not have time before fallout covers the area and do not return for your belongings because holding anything contaminated can kill you to hold it. Doctors died treating patients in Japan and Russia just from contact with their patients' nuclear contamination.
    The Son of man claims to win war to establish his kingdom on Earth to get men to fight and die to support his directive. The Son of man pledged to sacrifice his life in battle if necessary to redeem his people. He did not come to be ministered to by his enemy, he came to tell them what to do and judges them unworthy of life. Both sides of war consider themselves the innocents, righteous in their decision to kill to gain land and authority.
    The prophet Daniel was shown visions of the future and it made him sick to his stomach. Daniel could tell no one what he saw because no one was going to believe just one war was going to destroy all life on the planet forever.
     
    #93 Triumph, Mar 10, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  14. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    It is belief in Abraham as selected by God that causes the final war on Earth of human extinction and that is why Jesus called Abraham," the devil" and Abraham's supporters, "vipers".
    Poison that kills is in their mouth and Abraham is the father of their lies they support as truth, that kills them all. Jesus said no Pharisee is in the kingdom of God and those men support Abraham not truth.
    There is no covenant between God and Abraham. That is one of Abrahams lies and Abraham is the father of it. See Abraham in the kingdom of God in your beliefs, then be cast out with him. Scripture states none survive. Abraham's religions, Jacobs well, is dry with no life in it. Stones have as much life in them as the sons of Abraham that believe in his lies.
     
    #94 Triumph, Mar 10, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2022
  15. John D. Brey

    John D. Brey Well-Known Member

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    I don't know that I've ever read a message in this forum with which I disagree more vehemently. In my opinion, the ideas themselves (I know nothing of the person giving them) are vile.



    John
     
  16. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    The Bible shows that Abraham is a deceiver, he will lie to suit his own purpose.
    Abraham wants to own slaves and wealth willing to threaten death/battle to attain them. This is shown in Genesis 20.
    First, Abraham had no right to trespass on another man's land. Abraham should have sent a messenger to ask permission to visit Abimelech if Abraham was unsure how his presence would be received. Even though Abraham trespassed, Abimelech was a kind and gracious host, welcoming Abraham and Sarah his wife, into his home and was not a threat to Abraham. The fact Sarah was beautiful is meaningless. If Abimelech could be an immoral killer as was Abrahams' story to protect himself, then in reality king Abimelech could kill Abraham anyway to take Sarah in lust regardless if she was Abraham's wife or sister because Abraham trespassed on Abimelech's land uninvited so was there illegally. So there was no valid reason for Abraham to say he was not married and tell his wife to go with Abimelech as a single woman. Abraham is a liar and it is immoral, breaking his vow to God of marriage, to make his wife tell another man she is single, unmarried and to make himself appear unmarried around women in Abimelech's land.
    The story shows Sarah was treated as a respected guest by Abimelech, as the sister of a respected guest as Abraham was forgiven for trespassing. Sarah was not used in any immoral way. But Abraham saw the opportunity that he had with guile set up, to be viewed by his own people as a scorned husband whose wife was an adulteress. By Abraham's laws, those that commit adultery are to die thus Abimelech was to be killed by Abraham's people.
    Abraham wanted to gain Abimelech's people to use them as slaves and Abraham did by threatening to kill Abimelech for a "sin" that never happened.
    Genesis 20:4
    But Abimelech had not come near her: and he said, Lord, wilt thou slay also a righteous nation?

    Crafty Abraham had set up the situation to appear as if a sin of adultery had occurred to give himself a righteous motive Abraham's people would support to attack innocent Abimelech and his people. Abimelech feared for his own life being threatened by murder and theft by a man that was a respected guest in his home. Abraham was the criminal sinner, not Abimelech.
    To avoid battle to prevent his people from dying, and to prevent his own murder, Abimelech gave up his people as slaves to Abraham. Abraham left Abimelech's land with undeserved wealth in cattle and sheep and human slaves like a deceiving. murderous criminal thug.
    God does not approve of deception/lies and gives the COMMANDMENT, "thou shalt not bear false witness". God does not approve of murder of innocent people or threats of murder, "thou shalt not kill". God does not approve of a husband denying he is married to his wife as if he is a single man with no vow to God. Abraham stole the sheep and cattle from Abimelech, " thou shalt not steal". And by the lessons Jesus taught, God does not approve of people owning slaves.
    God did not select Abraham to represent his chosen above all men. Abraham represents everything God rejects in a person as Abraham desires to break the Commandments of God and his vows to God for Abraham's own personal status, power over people and wealth. Abraham uses lies to exalt himself as Abraham refuses to love and obey God.
     
    #96 Triumph, Mar 11, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2022
  17. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    Interesting as you point out the first "Light" is knowledge. In the beginning was nothing but pure intelligent energy, the light of God. As God formed our universe from intelligent energy including the vast amounts of suns and planets, dark matter between those collections of elements was formed also. Dark matter accounts for approximately 85% of the matter in the universe. Dark matter is called "dark" because it does not appear to interact with the electromagnetic field, which means it does not absorb, reflect, or emit electromagnetic radiation (like light) and is, therefore, difficult to detect.

    But note, Earth was not the first planet formed and the outline given in Genesis chapter 1 is only as it pertains to our existence as sentient beings on this small planet in our small solar system in the vast milky way. Verses are a synopsis of what happens overall not a chronological order of how all creation unfolds.
    1 John 5:6
    This is he that came by water and blood, even Jesus Christ; not by water only, but by water and blood. And it is the Spirit that beareth witness, because the Spirit is truth.
    This refers to Water Baptism the cleansing of sin opening the door to a righteous life.


    What is spoken of first is symbolic, people are referred to as water and people had gained belief in a God because of the darkness of the deep which is Death. ( Most of the human body is water, with an average of roughly 60%.)
    The Earth is the collective consciousness of humans worshipping their made up ideas of God and it was void, meaningless, without form of truth or true understanding of God. So when God said "let there be light" His divine energy was directed to inform humanity of the truth of God so they could worship the Living God of the Universe. Truth was given to Earth by prophets and the beloved Son of God, Jesus to guide people to love one another as well as loving God. The water of life was given by God forgiveness of sin and offer of eternal life..
    The days are symbolic not literal, since we are existing in a universe that is still forming, God has not stopped creating new suns, new heavens and new planets with life in the universe.
    Peter said, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. This is just saying the days are not literal and Jesus is a prophet with visions of what will happen thousands of years in the future.
    We are given a way to mark time however with the rising and setting of our sun 7 times makes a week.
    But note plants and animals are created before man is created. That is how life on this planet evolved and it is correct.
    But the clever Hebrew fable of creation used to establish their false religion claims man was created first. That is a direct contradiction to truth.
    Starting in Genesis 2/4 the Hebrew religion is shown being formed where they claim a Hebrew/Jew was the first man on Earth. Not true but it is amazing how many people eat that forbidden fruit which is believing a lie is the truth.
     
    #97 Triumph, Mar 20, 2022
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
  18. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    Think you might enjoy this The helical model - our solar system is a vortex - YouTube
     
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  19. Hawkins

    Hawkins Well-Known Member

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    That says earth alone may not be created inside our this space. It may be created 'else where' then 'plugged' to its current position on Day 4. After that, it is also possible that God 'moved' it on purpose.
     
  20. Triumph

    Triumph FREEDOM OF SPEECH

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    Astronauts claim they saw "beings" on our moon. We are not the most intelligent "beings" in the universe. It is pure vanity to believe we are the only life in the entire universe. God creates planets and lots of them and God creates life on those planets and lots of them.
    Some people want to say only what they can see is valid. When was the last time they saw an atom, the building block of their body, their existence?
    They can't see it so by that reasoning they do not exist.
     
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