Master Hoomer
Member
upon reflection samsara is reincarnation? I guess ask a hindu......
not rebirth..which is different...........
not rebirth..which is different...........
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Summerland
- Thread starter Master Hoomer
- Start date
Master Hoomer
Member
Rebirth in the Celtic Tradition
by: Tadhg MacCrossan
In Old Celtic (Gaulish-Brittonic and Goidelic), the word for rebirth was ategenos (Old Irish aithghen). In this doctrine of limited reincarnation the spirit of an ancestor was reborn among his or her own kin. This means that certain inherited characteristics and even Deuoi (Tuatha Dé Danann gods) would sometimes appear or reappear in a family lineage.
More often, though, it meant that a particular deity would choose to befriend a particular lineage and incarnate him or herself within that lineage, and thus a child could be born possessing certain characteristics of that deity. The child would not necessarily embody the personality of that spirit or divinity (though this sometimes happened in the cases of great heroes), but certain attributes or talents would develop as gifts from that divinity.
Such a phenomena was interpreted as rebirth in much the same way that a mother might say that her infant son "has his father’s eyes," or a father might say that his son "has his grandmother’s talent for music." Today most people are likely to interpret these familiar family traits as genetically inherited, but this was taught by the Druids to be a form of rebirth and well-known as such in the Celtic faith. Spiritual possession was another aspect of this belief, but ategenos differed very greatly from modern-day conceptions of reincarnation and karma borrowed from theosophy and certain sects of Hinduism, which also state that people are punished for sins by paying for them in the next incarnation. The Druids never taught that people were rewarded or punished according to principles associated with the reincarnation process of karma. The Druids would have thought such ideas absurd.
The Deuoi, or higher divinities, were creative, shape-shifting spirits and could incarnate in many forms through their magic. The Deuoi were in fact manifestations of a force greater than themselves. They are capable of taking many forms or guises as well as walking the earthly realm of the manifested world. This is very probably the reason the Druids avoided representations of the Deuoi as human in art until they were conquered by the Romans. It is also why the Romans equated Lugus, like Woden, with their own Mercury (Hermes), who was considered the messenger of the Gods. Celtic gods were like the Devas of Vedic religion.
Ok I'm just talking to myself....I wont post like this again...lol
by: Tadhg MacCrossan
In Old Celtic (Gaulish-Brittonic and Goidelic), the word for rebirth was ategenos (Old Irish aithghen). In this doctrine of limited reincarnation the spirit of an ancestor was reborn among his or her own kin. This means that certain inherited characteristics and even Deuoi (Tuatha Dé Danann gods) would sometimes appear or reappear in a family lineage.
More often, though, it meant that a particular deity would choose to befriend a particular lineage and incarnate him or herself within that lineage, and thus a child could be born possessing certain characteristics of that deity. The child would not necessarily embody the personality of that spirit or divinity (though this sometimes happened in the cases of great heroes), but certain attributes or talents would develop as gifts from that divinity.
Such a phenomena was interpreted as rebirth in much the same way that a mother might say that her infant son "has his father’s eyes," or a father might say that his son "has his grandmother’s talent for music." Today most people are likely to interpret these familiar family traits as genetically inherited, but this was taught by the Druids to be a form of rebirth and well-known as such in the Celtic faith. Spiritual possession was another aspect of this belief, but ategenos differed very greatly from modern-day conceptions of reincarnation and karma borrowed from theosophy and certain sects of Hinduism, which also state that people are punished for sins by paying for them in the next incarnation. The Druids never taught that people were rewarded or punished according to principles associated with the reincarnation process of karma. The Druids would have thought such ideas absurd.
The Deuoi, or higher divinities, were creative, shape-shifting spirits and could incarnate in many forms through their magic. The Deuoi were in fact manifestations of a force greater than themselves. They are capable of taking many forms or guises as well as walking the earthly realm of the manifested world. This is very probably the reason the Druids avoided representations of the Deuoi as human in art until they were conquered by the Romans. It is also why the Romans equated Lugus, like Woden, with their own Mercury (Hermes), who was considered the messenger of the Gods. Celtic gods were like the Devas of Vedic religion.
Ok I'm just talking to myself....I wont post like this again...lol
Master Hoomer
Member
not that anyone cares..lol...
my online friend has written an interesting article about the paralles between hinduism and celtic beleifs....
http://www.sarvadharma.org/sivaloka/ancient_links.htm
my online friend has written an interesting article about the paralles between hinduism and celtic beleifs....
http://www.sarvadharma.org/sivaloka/ancient_links.htm
Runt
Well-Known Member
*blinks* Wow... bored today? 
Hmm... I think Avalon was part of the Arthurian legends. Which, incidentally, were developed partially from Celtic mythology (and in some cases directly from events and characters from the "Tain Bo Cuailnge"). Let me see if I can find the book with the articles on it...
From the book Heroes of the Dawn: Celtic Myth
Arthur emerged in the medieval chronicles of Britain as a dux bellorum, or war leader, rather than as an actual king. The chronicles portray him as a valiant warrior who, with his noble followers, fought to preserve the remnants of the crumbling Roman Empire... Medieval authors drew on a variety of pagan sources, including Celtic figures such as Guinevere and Morgan Le Fay...Gawain, not Lancelot, was the original champion of the Round Table...Gawains stories contain more genuinely Celtic elements than those of any of his fellow knights. He is linked with Celtic sun symbolismhe grew stronger until noon, then weaker until nightfalland some of his adventures seem to derive directly from the Irish tales of the hero Cuchulainn...Two of the most prominent women associated with the Round Table are the Lady of the Lake and Morgan Le Fay, both of whom share many traits with Celtic fairy-folk...[The Lady of the Lake] ruled a land which was entered through a lake...In numerous accounts she is identified as Merlins lover, who imprisoned the sage in a cave, a tree or a tomb. Such stories suggest a strong association between the Lady of the Lake and death: certainly her realm, which was entered by crossing water, resembles the Celtic Otherworld, which the dead were said to enter by crossing the sea. Later traditions connected the Lady of the Lake with the mystic land of Avalon...It is said that she abducted the infant knight [Lancelot] and his cousins, schooling them in the arts of knighthood: in this she resembles the Irish female warrior-prophet Scathach, who trained the hero Cuchulainn...Morgan Le Fay is the more completely Celtic of the two figues. The name Morgan is related to Morrigan, the name of the Irish war goddess.
Hmm... I think Avalon was part of the Arthurian legends. Which, incidentally, were developed partially from Celtic mythology (and in some cases directly from events and characters from the "Tain Bo Cuailnge"). Let me see if I can find the book with the articles on it...
From the book Heroes of the Dawn: Celtic Myth
Arthur emerged in the medieval chronicles of Britain as a dux bellorum, or war leader, rather than as an actual king. The chronicles portray him as a valiant warrior who, with his noble followers, fought to preserve the remnants of the crumbling Roman Empire... Medieval authors drew on a variety of pagan sources, including Celtic figures such as Guinevere and Morgan Le Fay...Gawain, not Lancelot, was the original champion of the Round Table...Gawains stories contain more genuinely Celtic elements than those of any of his fellow knights. He is linked with Celtic sun symbolismhe grew stronger until noon, then weaker until nightfalland some of his adventures seem to derive directly from the Irish tales of the hero Cuchulainn...Two of the most prominent women associated with the Round Table are the Lady of the Lake and Morgan Le Fay, both of whom share many traits with Celtic fairy-folk...[The Lady of the Lake] ruled a land which was entered through a lake...In numerous accounts she is identified as Merlins lover, who imprisoned the sage in a cave, a tree or a tomb. Such stories suggest a strong association between the Lady of the Lake and death: certainly her realm, which was entered by crossing water, resembles the Celtic Otherworld, which the dead were said to enter by crossing the sea. Later traditions connected the Lady of the Lake with the mystic land of Avalon...It is said that she abducted the infant knight [Lancelot] and his cousins, schooling them in the arts of knighthood: in this she resembles the Irish female warrior-prophet Scathach, who trained the hero Cuchulainn...Morgan Le Fay is the more completely Celtic of the two figues. The name Morgan is related to Morrigan, the name of the Irish war goddess.
Master Hoomer
Member
The 1st Literary Appearances of Arthur are
1. The Welsh Poem attributed to Talisien
(The Bard who's Mabinogion Tale...which appears in the Lady Char;lotte Guest translation of 'The Mabinogion'..is clearly a tale of "initiation")
entitled "Predieu Anwnn"
(Apologies if I have spelt it wrong)this translates to "The Spoils of Anwnn"...this is a story of how Arthur and his men(not YET called knights) venture to Anwnn...the Other/Under World to take the Cauldron of the Goddess...Quite Clearly this is one of the Original Grail tales....'
2. The History of the Kings of Britain by Geofrey of Monmouth...a psuedo Welsh history/myth book...this includes Arthur ...and Merlin...in fact Geofrey even Wrote (or more accurately transcribed oral tales)The Prophecies of Merlin....yes Merlin was a prophet ....much like and in the vein of "Nostradamus"......
What is clear is that Arthur is NOT English..but Welsh...and possibly Scottish...and definatly not Roman...unlike the new film that is coming out...which I had great hopes for as it has been vetted by Caitlin and John Matthews for accuracy...but it looks like piffle......
Avalon simply means "Isle of Apples"....The Area of England called Somersetshire(Where I just happen to have grown up)is a strong apple growing area......its damp and just right for such things..."hard" Cider is a drink I have 'hic' had many times......
Avalon therefore is seen today mostly as a town called "Glastonbury" (Which derives its names from Glass town...I forget why)...Avalon is seen as an "entrance" to Anwnn...though some simply interchange the 2...so Avalon becomes Anwnn.....
Anwnn again is the Welsh term for the "Other/Under World" ...simply meaning "within the earth"......
The Figure of Arthur is essentially "Christ"....a Solar deity (yes kids/christians ..Christ is a Sun God...we can clearly see this via kabbalah...tippareth is the Sun...son=sun...Sun=Gold...alchemist like Gold...they seek "christ" or perfection...and finally Christian Holy day IS SUN(son)day...etc etc etc)This ties in with the Celtic Solar deities of Beli..(from who we just got worship the penis/pole that extends between worlds day..Beltaine/Mayday)....my 'teacher' links Beli to a triple solar God aspect of MAbon (Who can be seen to be Apollo)Beli and I forget the other...it will come back...
must go....
1. The Welsh Poem attributed to Talisien
(The Bard who's Mabinogion Tale...which appears in the Lady Char;lotte Guest translation of 'The Mabinogion'..is clearly a tale of "initiation")
entitled "Predieu Anwnn"
(Apologies if I have spelt it wrong)this translates to "The Spoils of Anwnn"...this is a story of how Arthur and his men(not YET called knights) venture to Anwnn...the Other/Under World to take the Cauldron of the Goddess...Quite Clearly this is one of the Original Grail tales....'
2. The History of the Kings of Britain by Geofrey of Monmouth...a psuedo Welsh history/myth book...this includes Arthur ...and Merlin...in fact Geofrey even Wrote (or more accurately transcribed oral tales)The Prophecies of Merlin....yes Merlin was a prophet ....much like and in the vein of "Nostradamus"......
What is clear is that Arthur is NOT English..but Welsh...and possibly Scottish...and definatly not Roman...unlike the new film that is coming out...which I had great hopes for as it has been vetted by Caitlin and John Matthews for accuracy...but it looks like piffle......
Avalon simply means "Isle of Apples"....The Area of England called Somersetshire(Where I just happen to have grown up)is a strong apple growing area......its damp and just right for such things..."hard" Cider is a drink I have 'hic' had many times......
Avalon therefore is seen today mostly as a town called "Glastonbury" (Which derives its names from Glass town...I forget why)...Avalon is seen as an "entrance" to Anwnn...though some simply interchange the 2...so Avalon becomes Anwnn.....
Anwnn again is the Welsh term for the "Other/Under World" ...simply meaning "within the earth"......
The Figure of Arthur is essentially "Christ"....a Solar deity (yes kids/christians ..Christ is a Sun God...we can clearly see this via kabbalah...tippareth is the Sun...son=sun...Sun=Gold...alchemist like Gold...they seek "christ" or perfection...and finally Christian Holy day IS SUN(son)day...etc etc etc)This ties in with the Celtic Solar deities of Beli..(from who we just got worship the penis/pole that extends between worlds day..Beltaine/Mayday)....my 'teacher' links Beli to a triple solar God aspect of MAbon (Who can be seen to be Apollo)Beli and I forget the other...it will come back...
must go....