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Suicide: Why do Conservatives Reject Euthanasia?

Discussion in 'Conservative Only' started by Sha'irullah, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    Something that has been bugging me as of lately is this constant rejection amongst conservatives of suicide which I just do not understand at all. Many conservatives push against not just suicide but the movement to have assisted suicide a federally protected practice. Many of them compare it to Nazi regimes, government sanctioned killing of citizens and of sorts of wackiness followed by every conspiracy theory under the tablecloth. But at the end of the day this is a person choosing to tend their own life so escape suffering and no other life is being put under threat of death except the person who wishes to commit suicide. This makes it much safer for one to end their life without risk of injury or permanent mutilation. It is euthanasia simply put.
     
  2. Rival

    Rival Bat Noach
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    They see it as a form of self murder. Murder is wrong. You can murder yourself and that is still wrong.
     
  3. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    That is my point, it does not violate any such notion as taking another life. It is your own life and if you do not have the right to self ownership then that completely ignores 99.9999% of capitalism and free market principles.

    But more surprisingly is the notion that euthanasia is done against people's will. I see Republicans specifically claiming these conspiracies which just ignore so much of what is occurring.
     
  4. Jonathan Ainsley Bain

    Jonathan Ainsley Bain Logical Positivist

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    Its a utilitarian issue.
    Legalizing the killing of people will lead to more suffering.
    Compare your argument to the firearms issue.
    Gun-owners claim that people owning guns does not cause killing.

    You perhaps make the error of assuming that people will do what is right
    when given the power to choose. Actually history has shown us that is often not true.

    I'm not really against the idea of euthanasia, I'm against the idea of it becoming
    a legal precedent that its ok to just kill unwanted people. The clear problem being
    that once the person is dead, they cannot stand up and say 'no, actually I did not want to die'.
    (Well, I reckon they can, but not easily, and most people just ignore ghosts anyways).
     
  5. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    I among the biggest issues, besides violating the hypocratic oath for doctors, is the reality that once the door opens, there is no end to why it should be administered.
     
  6. Buddha Dharma

    Buddha Dharma Dharma Practitioner

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    Well if you haven't figured it out @Sha'irullah, conservatism in the US at least is largely about controlling the lives of others. Of course, they don't want to be controlled, or have their corporate overlords told what to do- so conservatives cry small government. When it is beneficial for them...

    The saying goes that Republicans want government so small it fits inside every man and woman- and that's about right too!
     
  7. Rival

    Rival Bat Noach
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    Ha. Haha. Hahahahah.

    Ahem. Sorry. I need to bed go.
     
  8. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    I see flawed reasoning which forms a bias as the problem. Normally, when we hear of a clear case of murder, we instinctively feel moral outrage immediately. That is followed by an urge to see the offender punished.

    When someone condemns the act but that urge to punish is missing, we can bet that they made up their own moral rule which is acting as a bias.

    "I believe abortion is murder!" (But there is no urge to severely punish the woman who aborts her pregnancy)

    "I believe in the sanctity of life; only God has the right to take it!" (But there's no urge to severely punish the person who wants to end his life)

    Illogically, they typically want to punish the person who assists -- which makes as much sense as punishing the accomplice but not the murderer.
     
    #8 joe1776, Jan 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  9. joe1776

    joe1776 Well-Known Member

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    In logic and critical thinking, a slippery slope is a logical device in which a person asserts that some event must inevitably follow from another without any rational argument or demonstrable mechanism for the inevitability of the event in question.

    As for the Hippocratic Oath. The doctor's intent is not to harm but to ease suffering. To ease suffering is not an immoral act. Under the law, his actions would be put to the Reasonable Man Test. Would a reasonable man see the act as one which would ease suffering?
     
    #9 joe1776, Jan 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
  10. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    *Mod Post* Note that this is in the conservative only section. *Mod Post*
     
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  11. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    Life is pretty much suffering of one form or another. Who else knows to what degree I suffer. Sometimes when things get really tough I think it'd be better to avoid a lifetime of suffering. I don't know that this would be better for my family or society at large. A lot of folks depending on my continued existence.

    After a day or so I think yeah, those thoughts of ending it all were pretty selfish.

    I'd think any accepted process of euthanasia would have safeguards against frivolous use, still nobody but me knows my degree of suffering.

    Perhaps it's a fear of euthanasia becoming popular. Whatever safeguards in place, it's going to be difficult to prevent it's misuse.

    If folks are free to checkout whenever they wish in a pain free way, I wonder how prevalent it might become.
     
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  12. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    "I will not give a lethal drug to anyone if I am asked, nor will I advise such a plan; and similarly I will not give a woman a pessary to cause an abortion."

    Greek Medicine - The Hippocratic Oath
     
    #12 KenS, Jan 30, 2018
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 30, 2018
  13. Sha'irullah

    Sha'irullah رسول الآلهة

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    This is my whole concern with the GOP. They do not have the sort of sanity that many European conservatives have. People like Bill Whittle do not understand how conservatism can be secular and think it goes hand in hand with Christianity which 100% of all evidence suggests it does not, there is no correlation.

    Republicans just like Democrats have no notion of ideology and merely try tugging at the public to get votes and achieve the next seat so they can get roll outs for their next set of corporate benefits and with each doing so under different means. A good example of this is the fact that most corporations could not survive in a free market due to their tax exempts, subsidizations and political leeway for increased capital without customer consumption. Many corporate power get by with little to no public satisfaction thanks to government buyouts and pandering.

    When it comes to moral issues like this it seem Republicans have found the conspiratorial wing more beneficial to their party than sane conservatives. Which leaves people like me in the dust with mud on our faces
     
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  14. Mindmaster

    Mindmaster Well-Known Member
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    Suicide is prohibited by most religions because murder is murder, but it's not even popular with atheists. You'd find it hard pressed to find support for it except for an exceptionally small minority. Euthanasia for the major religions makes no exception, but more atheists are on-board with that. Again, never going to be a popular option either way...

    The problem with government sanctioned euthanasia is that it is possible for the criteria to shift over time, and then it becomes something like people being killed off for trivial things like extreme depression in comparison to terminal cancer. It's just basically impossible to fence this in once you let the genii out of the bottle...
     
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  15. KenS

    KenS Well-Known Member

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    That is exactly what would happen. It eventually becomes arbitrary...

    IMO, it will come to pass for the following progression:

    1) Adults believe that abortion is OK for any reason (can't support and take care of them, can't love them, just the wrong time, I just don't want one)
    2) The children of said adults are brought up with the above viewpoint
    3) Children become the ruling mayority and make laws that say "euthanisia is OK if you can't support and take care of them, can't love them, just the wrong time, and I just don't want them".
     
    #15 KenS, Jan 30, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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  16. PopeADope

    PopeADope Habemus papam

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    If I could get comfortably euthanized , I would have done it by now
     
  17. 74x12

    74x12 Well-Known Member

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    It has potential for abuse and any "suicide" could be easily arranged by certain people. Anyway all this will be known one day.
     
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