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Suicide...does God Forgive?
- Thread starter dolcevita
- Start date
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
I guess that would depend on whether or not you believe your God considers suicide a "sin".
Runt
Well-Known Member
See, for me that is applying human characteristics to a entity that, for me, is simply WAAAY beyond us. And I am not disturbed by the idea that It may not care about us... I have humanity to care about and be cared for by. I would be disturbed if God HATED humanity and wanted to destroy us... but frankly, I think God is beyond any kind of human emotions or cares.
A question that I have for you is, what God do you believe in? The God that I know made us in his image. I'm not applying human characteristics to him, I'm applying his spiritual characteristics to us. You're right, God is beyond our understanding only because we choose to not fully live by his word. I'm not trying to start a debate. I respect your opinions. But you say that
I think you should be. If God doesn't care about us then what would stop him from destroying us. He doesn't have to hate us for that. He just has to not care. Again I ask, what would be the point of making us if he didn't care?
Runt
Well-Known Member
I know you're not. I don't mind answering your questions. I understand that my views must seem very different to you, and very wrong. But you have to understand that I come from a different religious tradition... so my views on God ARE different.
Oh boy, I've sure had to answer this question a lot! My views on the nature of God are all over this forum! Let me see if I can round them up...
Okay, to quote myself: "A) 'All Gods are one God', or, more accurately, 'There are not many Gods but many ways of looking at God'. God is the sum of all energy found anywhere and everywhere in the universe, male and female, positive and negative, and 'good and evil'.
b) God is everywhere, in everything and everyone. God IS everything; similarly, everything is not God, but everything is PART of God.
c) Most of all, the totality of Gods nature is incomprehensible."
This will help you understand how I arrived at this conclusion (no book told me...):
"Science knows that everything is energy... EVERYTHING. Science can look at the behavior of little clumps of this energy (subatomic particles, atoms, molecules, biological organisms, communities of biological organisms, weather, etc), and it can determine the nature of each of these little clumps... but what about the vast totality of energy? ALL OF IT.
Some scientific theory (string?) dictates that all energy interacts with other energy, indicating that it is all interconnected in some vast, incomprehensible way. Therefore, just as the energy of every atom, every molecule, every system of of a single biological organism is basically an ARRANGEMENT of energy with a specific nature when it combines to form a whole (combining to form "me" or "you")... so all the nature of the universe, ALL OF IT, when viewed in its totality, forms...something. Something vast, incomprehensible, unknowable...something that CANNOT be viewed by science simply because it is so big.
I call this Something, whatever it is, "God". I know nothing about this God. I cannot try to define what it IS beyond saying that it is vast, incomprehensible, and unknowable, but using my meager human logic I can try to define what it ISN'T.
It does not have a personality... this is something that biological organisms have. Therefore, it is not loving, caring, angry, wrathful, or any other human/biological emotion. The best I can perhaps say, using these imperfect human emotions to describe something that is inhuman and has no emotions, is that this Something is "apathetic" or "uncaring".
It is not finite... how can something that is EVERYTHING, all energy, be finite when energy cannot be created or destroyed?
It is not male or female, but encompasses both (because It, being the totality of energy, encompasses the biological world, which has gender)."
As am I... I wrote somewhere (all this has been beat over the head for me, so I'm just quoting myself right and left) "The Christians were right when they say that God made us in Its image...but I think perhaps they misinterpreted what It meant. God, in the simplest terms, is energy. So are we. Thus, we ARE created in Its image... not male or female, not bipedal or humanoid, but pure energy. Our 'soul' is energy, our body is energy... WE are energy."
Ah, but there are SOO many interpretations about what he was really saying in the Bible, even among Christians. In fact, I think the fact that there are so many different interpretations about God is PROOF that It is beyond our understanding: It is so great, so vast, so mysterious that its nature CANNOT be confined to one mere book!
When I said I'm not worried about whether or not God cares for us you said:
Ah, but I'm not worried about whether or not God cares for us! If God wished to smite me down right now, there is no point in fearing or not fearing... God will do what God wants, and my own personal feelings on the matter won't change that fact one bit!
Ah, but God is destroying us all the time! Hurricanes, earthquakes, accidents, drownings, lightning, volcanos...cause and effect...the very fact that It "created" death (it COULD have made us immortal, but chose to slowly destory us over time...)
Good question. No idea. Who truly knows the "mind" of God? I seriously doubt It thinks in the same terms as us!
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
I think it depends on your definition of 'sin'
I don't have the 'sin' concept you do.
Jesus knew he would be killed... by not fighting it wasn't he basicly commiting suicide?
wa:-do
I don't have the 'sin' concept you do.
Jesus knew he would be killed... by not fighting it wasn't he basicly commiting suicide?
wa:-do
Holy_is_his_name
Member
In the Bible, the only sin described as unforgivable is sin against the Holy Spirtit. Whether suicide is forgiven depends on many things. Was the person mentally stable? If not, can they be judged resposible for their actions? Situations dictate, but we must place all our trust in God.
THEDARKONE4
Member
Jesus was most definitely not committing suicide. When you commit suicide, you are killing yourself. So, you are murdering yourself. However, murder is a sin. Jesus doesn't sin, so Jesus wasn't committing suicide.painted wolf said:
Runt
Well-Known Member
Faulty logic...
1. Allowing others to kill you when you have the option to chose to live is the kind of suicide that we quaintly call a "self sacrifice".
Or, if we look at a modern day example, assisted suicide is still considered "suicide" even though the patient is not inserting the lethal drug into their own veins with their own hands.
And people can commit murder without ever pulling the trigger on a gun or wielding a knife. Hitler, for example, was responsible for the deaths of millions... but obviously did not kill those millions with his own hands. Yet we still hold him accountable.
Therefore, by modern day standards, at least, Jesus WAS committing suicide (or, as you say, "murdering" himself) even though he did not physically take his own life.
2. Murder, in the Christian Bible, IS a sin. The commandment is "Thou shalt not kill". However, in the Bible it is also clear that there are MANY exceptions to this rule... it becomes obvious that it is only a sin to kill when that murder does NOT fall under these stipulations. Therefore, suicide might NOT be considered a sin...or, it might be a forgivable sin. Meaning Jesus COULD have committed suicide and still remained pure of soul, or become pure of soul by asking for God's forgiveness. Meaning OTHERS could potentially do the same thing... meaning God MIGHT forgive suicide, or meaning that suicide might NOT be a sin.
THEDARKONE4
Member
And, you would be right, IF sacrifice and suicide were the same things.
Suicide: The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself.
Sacrifice: 1. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
2. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
Suicide: The act or an instance of intentionally killing oneself.
Sacrifice: 1. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
2. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
painted wolf
Grey Muzzle
Isn't human sacrifice a no-no....
either way its a tricky concept. 8)
Wa:-do
either way its a tricky concept. 8)
Wa:-do
johnnys4life
Pro-life Mommy
Just by looking at the Bible you can see that God doesn't always consider suicide a sin. My husband was talking to me a while ago about a part in the old testement where there was this army surrounded by enemies and they knew they weren't going to win so they all committed suicide so that nobody could say they were defeated and they were later commended in the Bible for their bravery. It's been a while since I read that passage but if anyone is interested I can look it up and find it for them. So I think that in some situations God understands suicide and he is forgiving.
There is no atonement for intentional sin! God will judge all who sin and haven't had their sins forgiven.
This is not a salvation issue.
So IF GOD says, suicide is a sin, you would be judged for that unforgiven sin.
For the one who said a Christian is forgiven for past, present and future sins. Would you name chapter and verse? If you can?!
This is not a salvation issue.
So IF GOD says, suicide is a sin, you would be judged for that unforgiven sin.
For the one who said a Christian is forgiven for past, present and future sins. Would you name chapter and verse? If you can?!
Ardhanariswar
I'm back!
suicide is very selfish. very very selfish. it affects everyone, their loved ones, friends, even enemies. but sometimes people are desperate and need to run away. i believe sucide is suffering and therefore leads to a lower rebirth. its sad, whatodo?
Green Gaia
Veteran Member
Sin? This is no such thing as "sin". God does not forgive, punish or reward us for what we do in this life. I agree with Gerani that suicide is selfish towards those let behind, but that does not equate into eternal damnation. Because "God" (if there is a god), doesn't care one way or the other.