Sufis

[QuakingAlgerian]

My family in Algeria is pretty much all Sufi. I have heard something about other Muslims treating Sufis poorly, as heritics, kufar, polytheist etc. If there are any Sufis on the board, I'd like to ask if this is the case in your experience? And for all posters, I'd like ask what your opinion/experience/impression of Sufis.

Thanks!

 

[booboo]

Salam,

The Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia mission was mainly against Sufism. They are also known to many as Salafis, those who follow on the footsteps of the salaf.

Islam has two main dimensions from the One Almighty. Allah says that He is the First and the Last. The Manifest and the Hidden. Thus, even the Qur'an speaks of itself as a Hidden Book in Sura al-Waqi'a:

56:75 Furthermore I call to witness the setting of the Stars (the manifest),-
56:76 And that is indeed a mighty adjuration if ye but knew,-
56:77 That this is indeed a Qur'an Most Honourable,
56:78 In a Hidden Book
56:79 Which none shall touch but those who are pure.

Now comes to the question, if the Qur'an we find in books describes itself that it is hidden, then what is the Qur'an? How can what we see tell us that it is hidden?

This is where the Sufis come from. To them the outer garments of religion are symbols to the mystical inner truth, that none can unfold, except those who are Pure. Hence, one of the root words for Sufi is "safa'a" which means purity. Inner purity.

Now, Wahhabis or Salafis are not to blame, however, when misunderstandings may arise. They are known to be literalists. Literalists cannot see the inner or hidden part of the religion. They do not see symbols, they just see what is there and take it as is. Of course, Allah describes Himself as the Manifest and the Hidden, so we cannot say they are wrong, but maybe not complete, due to ignorance from the side of some Wahhabis.

However, that does not make Sufis not as ignorant either. The main issues that Wahhabis (Salafis) have against Sufism are those things that may lead to "shirk". This includes venerating saints (awliya') and asking them for help. Wahhabis take the point of view that only Allah should be prayed for, because praying for any other would lead to "shirk" (renouncing the Omnipotent Unity of Allah) and believing that a creature may provide better than Providence (ar-Razzaq) Himself. Although to the Sufi elite, symbols are known to be mere symbols, to the majority of the public, those symbols are actually worshipped and therefore fall into their own ignorance.

Of course asking a saint for help is not wrong, but the fact may lead to "shirk" and this is what Wahhabis do not like. For even in the Qur'an, the sons of Jacob (pbuh) ask their father Jacob for forgiveness, and in reply he says that he will seek Allah's forgiveness for them.

In Sufis case, sufis are vulnerable of putting trust on a saint instead of Allah. However, that is due to the ignorance of some sufis.

The Sufi Ibrahim ibn al-Khawwas (d. 904) is quoted as saying that the "Initiator of Saints" Sayyidna Khidr (pbuh) offered to accompany him but Khawwas refused, fearing that in Khidr's company he would put his trust in Khidr instead of in God.

Therefore, to some extent the Wahhabis have a point, and to another extent the Sufis also have a point.

Now as to what is right and what is wrong, maybe it is best not to trust either the words of a Wahhabi nor a Sufi, but to trust in Allah, as the Wahhabis say. For those who seek to know the Truth for the love of the Truth sincerely from all their heart and all their soul, Allah will not leave them misguided, for Allah is the Truth, as the Sufis say.


booboo

 

[Pilgrim Simon]

I have recently discovered Ibn al-Arabi and found him to be exeptionally profitable for my own spiritual quest. I live in England and my religious background is Christian but for the past ten years or so I have been looking at other religious philosophies. I have had a number of mystical experiences within and outside of Christianity (to us Arabi would be considered a mystic) and the reaction of the Church to mystics is always a slightly awkward one....we are too individualistic and unorthodox...we do not follow the conventional...we do not conform to norms of belief. So we always feel as if we are on the fringes or edge of the group.

 

[croak]

http://www.islamonline.net/fatwa/english/FatwaDisplay.asp?hFatwaID=39379

Well, if they obey what Allah has said in the Qur'an and Muhammed (saas) in the Sunnah, and do not disobey Islamic laws, than they are Muslims just like anyone else. However, if they add innovations to the religion, than they are disbelievers.

 

[john313]

I do not know any Sufis, but if they are treated poorly by Muslims, then those Muslims should hang their head in shame and ask forgiveness from their Creator and from those whom they treated poorly. Everyone should be treated with kindness and compassion, unless of course you are threatened.

 

[Servant]

There are sufi sects who introduced some grave innovationes that put you automatically outside the pale of Islam. But then again, as someone noted above that there are sufis who follow the Sunnah and the Qur'an in its boundaries.

 

[Cordoba]

Peace to all

Possibly the word "Sufi" itself is part of the misunderstanding, as it means different things to different people.



Purification of the heart (Tazqiyyah) and remembering God are often mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah, whereas the word (Sufi) isn't.



Would a new term help solve this problem (with the agreement that no innovations are allowed)? What do you think?

 

[john313]

Would a new term help solve this problem (with the agreement that no innovations are allowed)? What do you think?

salaam,

I think there are way too many terms already for what should be the same religion. Even people saying they are sunni or shia is too much. we should all be Muslim rather than split into different sects/religions. different names/labels only add barriers between us and provide further separation that should not be there between brothers. we need to go back to the roots of the teachings of the prophets(pbut), when there was only the religion of God that was taught by them. there are so many manmade corruptions in religions nowadays it is sickening. insha'Allah Imam Mahdi will rise and al-Masih will return and guide all to the straight path.

 

[Cordoba]

I agree with you. Muslims should be just Muslims (without any special labels).

All the best.

 

[aisha]

well there was this other forum i went to and all the salafis turned against me because i was sufi which was pretty lame they started calling me and, and the books i read - the suthors kafirs n this and that but when i read in a sunnah book Rasulullah [saw] said (these arent the exact words) if someone accuses you of being a kafir when deep down you arent, then they are one themselves as Allah [swt] alone knows what you are on the inside. basically what goes around comes around! the thhing with sufism, it helps you buils iman and works on the inside and then the outside like puriying yourselves. but then again some sufis are following the rong tareeq[path]

 

[john313]

i am aware that most Islam is against the use of marajuana as an assistant to meditation. i don't know if it is haram, but it is normally frowned upon because it is called a drug instead of an herb. What is the general sufi view of using it to aid in meditation/relaxation, not as a drug just to "get high"?

 

[aisha]

it is forbidden in Islam to use it for the use of "getting High" i am not
very knowledgable in the area of knowing if it is allowed in drugs! in my opinion it maybe allowed to cure oneself when seriously ill.

 

[michel]

well there was this other forum i went to and all the salafis turned against me because i was sufi which was pretty lame they started calling me and, and the books i read - the suthors kafirs n this and that but when i read in a sunnah book Rasulullah [saw] said (these arent the exact words) if someone accuses you of being a kafir when deep down you arent, then they are one themselves as Allah [swt] alone knows what you are on the inside. basically what goes around comes around! the thhing with sufism, it helps you buils iman and works on the inside and then the outside like puriying yourselves. but then again some sufis are following the rong tareeq[path]

I find it so sad when people find it impossible to be tollerant of others' religious faiths. From my own little knowledge, I have never come across a faith that commands it's followers to harm or taunt those of another faith. I believe that the intollerance creeps in through bad translation, political motives, whatever.

 

[aisha]

i believe this aswell but not many people their mistakes and the difference between right and wrong.

 

[john313]

it is forbidden in Islam to use it for the use of "getting High" i am not
very knowledgable in the area of knowing if it is allowed in drugs! in my opinion it maybe allowed to cure oneself when seriously ill.

what about specifically as an aid for meditation and "entering the barzakh". in reading about marajuana, it does not really have negative effects, so why would it be haram if it is not being abused as a drug?

 

[polite]

Usually those that are called Sufis nowadays follow bid’ahs (innovations) that constitute shirk, as well as other kinds of bid’ah, such as when some of them say “Madad ya sayyid (Help, O Master)”, and call upon the qutubs (“holy men”), and recite dhikr in unison using names by Allaah has not called Himself, like saying “Huw, Huw (He, He)” and “Ah, Ah (a contraction of the word ‘Allaah’)”. Whoever reads their books will be aware of many of their innovations that constitute shirk, and other evils.

by the Standing Committee in their answer to a question about the ruling on the Sufi tareeqahs that exist nowadays

 

[Irvingk57]

Greetings and Salaam Dear Brothers and Sisters:
I am a darvish of the Nimatullahi Sufi Order, and have never been treated badly because of it, but i live in New York. My tariqah follows the Sharia and we are all Muslims, or convert to Islam upon initiation.
I am also the author of the book Master of the Jinn: A Sufi Novel, which is a good way to introduce yourself to the Sufi path of Love and compassion.
You can read an excerpt at http://www.masterofthejinn.com

Ya Haqq (the Truth),

Irving

 

[john313]

Usually those that are called Sufis nowadays follow bid’ahs (innovations) that constitute shirk, as well as other kinds of bid’ah, such as when some of them say “Madad ya sayyid (Help, O Master)”, and call upon the qutubs (“holy men”), and recite dhikr in unison using names by Allaah has not called Himself, like saying “Huw, Huw (He, He)” and “Ah, Ah (a contraction of the word ‘Allaah’)”. Whoever reads their books will be aware of many of their innovations that constitute shirk, and other evils.

by the Standing Committee in their answer to a question about the ruling on the Sufi tareeqahs that exist nowadays

i have met many sufi's and none of them call on holy men. they only call on Allah for guidance. some people misunderstand what is being said or done as they do not have a high enough level of perception to understand, these people are quick to call the sufi's all kafirs which is a grave mistake. according to you, calling Allah by the pronoun "he" is shirk (this is immediately after you refer to Allah as "himself"). this is not true. Allah has many names, who are you to say what Allah has or has not called "himself"?
your statement is a slander on sufis and is false. do not slander what you do not understand.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Salam,

The Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia mission was mainly against Sufism. They are also known to many as Salafis, those who follow on the footsteps of the salaf.

Islam has two main dimensions from the One Almighty. Allah says that He is the First and the Last. The Manifest and the Hidden. Thus, even the Qur'an speaks of itself as a Hidden Book in Sura al-Waqi'a:

56:75 Furthermore I call to witness the setting of the Stars (the manifest),-
56:76 And that is indeed a mighty adjuration if ye but knew,-
56:77 That this is indeed a Qur'an Most Honourable,
56:78 In a Hidden Book
56:79 Which none shall touch but those who are pure.

Now comes to the question, if the Qur'an we find in books describes itself that it is hidden, then what is the Qur'an? How can what we see tell us that it is hidden?

This is where the Sufis come from. To them the outer garments of religion are symbols to the mystical inner truth, that none can unfold, except those who are Pure. Hence, one of the root words for Sufi is "safa'a" which means purity. Inner purity.

Now, Wahhabis or Salafis are not to blame, however, when misunderstandings may arise. They are known to be literalists. Literalists cannot see the inner or hidden part of the religion. They do not see symbols, they just see what is there and take it as is. Of course, Allah describes Himself as the Manifest and the Hidden, so we cannot say they are wrong, but maybe not complete, due to ignorance from the side of some Wahhabis.

However, that does not make Sufis not as ignorant either. The main issues that Wahhabis (Salafis) have against Sufism are those things that may lead to "shirk". This includes venerating saints (awliya') and asking them for help. Wahhabis take the point of view that only Allah should be prayed for, because praying for any other would lead to "shirk" (renouncing the Omnipotent Unity of Allah) and believing that a creature may provide better than Providence (ar-Razzaq) Himself. Although to the Sufi elite, symbols are known to be mere symbols, to the majority of the public, those symbols are actually worshipped and therefore fall into their own ignorance.

Of course asking a saint for help is not wrong, but the fact may lead to "shirk" and this is what Wahhabis do not like. For even in the Qur'an, the sons of Jacob (pbuh) ask their father Jacob for forgiveness, and in reply he says that he will seek Allah's forgiveness for them.

In Sufis case, sufis are vulnerable of putting trust on a saint instead of Allah. However, that is due to the ignorance of some sufis.

The Sufi Ibrahim ibn al-Khawwas (d. 904) is quoted as saying that the "Initiator of Saints" Sayyidna Khidr (pbuh) offered to accompany him but Khawwas refused, fearing that in Khidr's company he would put his trust in Khidr instead of in God.

Therefore, to some extent the Wahhabis have a point, and to another extent the Sufis also have a point.

Now as to what is right and what is wrong, maybe it is best not to trust either the words of a Wahhabi nor a Sufi, but to trust in Allah, as the Wahhabis say. For those who seek to know the Truth for the love of the Truth sincerely from all their heart and all their soul, Allah will not leave them misguided, for Allah is the Truth, as the Sufis say.


booboo

Salam brother I am really ignorant when it comes to the Sufi belief now it is my understanding that the verse in Surah 56:78 does not mean hidden but well guarded "Fi Kitaabim mak nuun" and Allah leaves nothing in terms of what is necessary for us to pass the test of this life to uncertainty that is described in the attributes of His Names also . And why are you accepting the methodology of some sheihk unless he is quoting from the authentic hadiths of our beloved Prophet(saw). We are commanded to obey Allah and his Prophet(saw) ONLY. Our beloved Prophet Mohammed, if this is who the Sufi's believe is there prophet and forgive my ignorance brother because I am not knowledgeable of the branch of Islam, forbids us to call on anyone other than Allah(swta). And in relation to Jacob for certain sins to be forgiven by Allah you must make ask that person first for forgiveness and then make istaghfar. Please give me some light on this subject and clarify my misunderstandings

Jazakalahu khairon

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I do not know any Sufis, but if they are treated poorly by Muslims, then those Muslims should hang their head in shame and ask forgiveness from their Creator and from those whom they treated poorly. Everyone should be treated with kindness and compassion, unless of course you are threatened.

I totally agree brother