Sued for playing Christmas music?

[idea]

At the bank where I work, we are not allowed to play Christmas music in any of the 1600+ locations which are open to the public.

Many employees think it's because of some sort of political correctness on the part of upper management, but here's the real reason:

There are actually individuals who make a living working for companies who SUE other companies for playing copyrighted music during the holidays.

Yes, it's true - these companies employ individuals to walk around all during the holidays, going into public businesses and hoping to catch them playing Christmas music - so they can sue them.

Personally, I think that is an absolutely pathetic way to make a living, and I'd hate to live a day in their shoes, let alone try to actually tell anyone what my job was. I mean, I understand that music is copyrighted but honestly - no radio at work?

I think it's ridiculous myself. Your thoughts?

I understand that musicians need to make a living - but I think there is a limit to that. If a song is new, and an artist wants to make money off of it, then fine. If however the author of the song is long dead - then it should be public domain.

 

[blackout]

I will need to pay fees for the use of certain songs in my keyboard teaching method.

I don't mind. I just don't know how to do it.
(and will be Self publishing) sooo....

anyone know?

 

[idea]

I will need to pay fees for the use of certain songs in my keyboard teaching method.

I don't mind. I just don't know how to do it.
(and will be Self publishing) sooo....

anyone know?

just contact that composer (if they are still alive) or publishing comp of what you are using.

 

[blackout]

This is what I came up with.

Bill Withers - Contact information

imdb.com - I could use my free trial option to check the site out I guess.

Any other suggestions for obtaining contact info?

 

[Alceste]

I will need to pay fees for the use of certain songs in my keyboard teaching method.

I don't mind. I just don't know how to do it.
(and will be Self publishing) sooo....

anyone know?

You can contact the publisher or artist directly and ask for permission. You can also purchase sheet music online.

"Fair use" exemptions to copyright protection include the use of copyrighted material for teaching, though, so I don't think you have to pay any fees. OTOH, if the artist is living, it is good karma to encourage your students to pay to download the sheet music or songs.

As a performer, you don't need to pay any license fees. The venues you play at pay them. You only need to send a set list that includes the name of the copyright holder with each song.

As a composer, register yourself as an artist with ASCAP or BMI and register each of your songs individually. Then they will pay you a share of the license fees they collect from the venues where you play.

 

[Alceste]

This is what I came up with.

Bill Withers - Contact information

imdb.com - I could use my free trial option to check the site out I guess.

Any other suggestions for obtaining contact info?

imdb is a movie review site. They won't have any contact info for artists.

What are you trying to do?

According to this site, the publisher is Universal Music Publishing.
http://www.musicnotes.com/sheetmusic/mtdFPE.asp?ppn=MN0042954

 

[Kathryn]

And it's ridiculous if people think it's about intellectual ownership on the part of the artist. I brought this thread up to a few people in the "biz", and they said artists and composers never see a cent of the money from these distribution licenses. It's all goes to the IRAA, ASCAP, SOCAN, SESAC, BMI, etc.

Interesting. Thanks for the info.

 

[Kathryn]

So this its not about Christmas music at all, but unlicensed music use?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you also argued that downloading music and movies without paying for the privilege is wrong? Are those opinions compatible?

It is probably wise for your bank to have a policy in place that prevents their employees from violating intellectual property rights if they don't want to pay the licensing fees.

It only comes up at Christmas time because not only do our employees ask to listen to Christmas music, our customers often make remarks like, "wow, it sure is quiet in here" or "Where's your Christmas music?"

The way I see it, the CD is bought and paid for. The radio station is making money from the advertisers. I don't see why it's so awful for bank tellers to be listening to Christmas music that they bought on equipment they bought or tuning in to a radio station (we have several that are completely commercial free during Christmas by the way around here). We're not talking about playing music over a system, but customers would probably overhear the radio or CD when they got up to the counter. Apparently that's NO BUENO and breaking some law.

I think it's ridiculous, and even more ridiculous for someone to make a living scoping out businesses and filing lawsuits when they hear someone playing a radio at their work station.

 

[Kathryn]

So this its not about Christmas music at all, but unlicensed music use?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but haven't you also argued that downloading music and movies without paying for the privilege is wrong? Are those opinions compatible?

It is probably wise for your bank to have a policy in place that prevents their employees from violating intellectual property rights if they don't want to pay the licensing fees.

By the way, I guess I was able to convince you that these lawsuits are real and that people really do drive around looking for businesses to sue - am I correct?

 

[waitasec]

By the way, I guess I was able to convince you that these lawsuits are real and that people really do drive around looking for businesses to sue - am I correct?

i didn't need any convincing....

 

[Kathryn]

i didn't need any convincing....

Right - which was why my response was to Alceste and not you.

 

[Alceste]

By the way, I guess I was able to convince you that these lawsuits are real and that people really do drive around looking for businesses to sue - am I correct?

I didn't realize you were talking about copyright violation in general. I thought you were taking about christmas music specifically. I do not believe people are employed to root out christmas music specifically. I believe your bank has a sensible policy not to allow their employees to infringe on copyright law, whatever the season.

Of course there are people employed to enforce the legal rights of the owners of intellectual property. Why wouldn't there be?

If your place of work has a no music policy year round, I suggest you take it up with your employer. They could just pay the fee, or they have many options other than licensed music.

Personally, I think copyright law is sure need of reform. It is wrong to criminalize normal behavior, such as file sharing and listening to the radio in public.

 

[waitasec]

Right - which was why my response was to Alceste and not you.

my point was that this isn't an unusual practice...

 

[Kathryn]

my point was that this isn't an unusual practice...

I didn't say it was unusual. I said it was ridiculous.

 

[waitasec]

I didn't say it was unusual. I said it was ridiculous.

not to me.
it's necessary. but as Alceste said, if you can come up with a better way, i'm all ears

 

[Kathryn]

not to me.
it's necessary. but as Alceste said, if you can come up with a better way, i'm all ears

I prefer to simply be disdainful. I don't much care one way or another, but like I said, I'd hate to say I made a living suing people for listening to their own personal radio at work.

 

[waitasec]

I prefer to simply be disdainful. I don't much care one way or another, but like I said, I'd hate to say I made a living suing people for listening to their own personal radio at work.

and what of those who rely on being compensated for the use of their songs?
i can understand why you would think the mariah carey's of the world are not in need, but we can't have a double standard.

 

[blackout]

You can contact the publisher or artist directly and ask for permission. You can also purchase sheet music online.

"Fair use" exemptions to copyright protection include the use of copyrighted material for teaching, though, so I don't think you have to pay any fees. OTOH, if the artist is living, it is good karma to encourage your students to pay to download the sheet music or songs.

As a performer, you don't need to pay any license fees. The venues you play at pay them. You only need to send a set list that includes the name of the copyright holder with each song.

As a composer, register yourself as an artist with ASCAP or BMI and register each of your songs individually. Then they will pay you a share of the license fees they collect from the venues where you play.

I have renotated the music in keeping with my own unique teaching technology.
It would go in MY method book series, notated my way.
(to be taught by other teachers to their own students)

I'm taking the rest of this in though. thanks.

 

[Alceste]

I have renotated the music in keeping with my own unique teaching technology.
It would go in MY method book series, notated my way.
(to be taught by other teachers to their own students)

I'm taking the rest of this in though. thanks.

Well, I notate music my own way all the time as a music teacher - I find out what the student wants to learn to play, learn it myself and teach it back to them. You don't get into sketchy territory until you try to profit from your arrangement of the copyrighted material (e.g. by selling a book of copyrighted material). In that case, definitely get in touch with the copyright holder. With mainstream music this will rarely be the artist - it will usually be a major publisher, and they will attempt to extract maximum payment from you.

If you stick to indie music, you can often contact the artist directly and get permission without paying a penny. And of course, traditional music is in the public domain. That's my area of expertise.