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Sucks to be an internet user in the EU. So much for fair use media.

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Fair Use

European right-wing parties are still left in spectrum in a lot of cases so your point does not fly with me.
Right-wing here often means people who want to give away freedoms for the sake of international companies. Nationalists are often closer to center or even somewhat closer to social democrats. In Finland social democrats (members of socialists in Europe) are also traditionally anti-communist and liberals were somewhat right of center, but they no longer have any support. The axis is quite hard to use in comparing North America to Europe.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Right-wing here often means people who want to give away freedoms for the sake of international companies.

That isn't right-wing but cronyism

Nationalists are often closer to center or even somewhat closer to social democrats. In Finland social democrats (members of socialists in Europe) are also traditionally anti-communist and liberals were somewhat right of center, but they no longer have any support. The axis is quite hard to use in comparing North America to Europe.[/QUOTE]

Seem easy to use. Just the labels seems often off when compared to the spectrum.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
That isn't right-wing but cronyism
They're considered the right-most part here and political scientists agree. They're all for the EU and for this particular package.

Seem easy to use. Just the labels seems often off when compared to the spectrum.
In Finland liberal, socialist, green party, left and communist are different entities opposed to each other. The main traditional right wing party and the nationalist "True Finns" party likewise.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
They're considered the right-most part here and political scientists agree. They're all for the EU and for this particular package.

If liberals are considered right of center then those political scientists are garbage
 

HonestJoe

Well-Known Member
If it gets implemented then it's a disaster.
Why would it be a disaster. Literally nobody involved wants to destroy the internet so why would the legislation be implemented or applied in a way which could achieve that. The very fact the opponents interpretations are so extreme and negative is the reason those interpretations are never going to be applied in practice. This is far from perfect and there will inevitably be some issues and difficult edge cases to deal with but there are issues and difficult edge cases right now which the legislation is trying to address. It will not be the massive international disaster the extreme opponents predict unless they choose to make that happen.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
If liberals are considered right of center then those political scientists are garbage
They're not garbage. It's why I always feel a need to laugh when the US liberals are mentioned. They were for small government, personal freedom and responsibility... etc

Liberals (Finland) - Wikipedia

I did vote for them once, before they basically disappeared. They were not leftists and no one sane would have confused them for Marxists, they were different from your Canadian centre-left liberals.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
They're not garbage. It's why I always feel a need to laugh when the US liberals are mentioned.

Do not conflate liberals with the Dem party and it's history.

They were for small government, personal freedom and responsibility... etc

Liberals (Finland) - Wikipedia

That is classical liberal which is American conservatism

I did vote for them once, before they basically disappeared. They were not leftists and no one sane would have confused them for Marxists, they were different from your Canadian centre-left liberals.

Leftists are anti-capitalist not merely anyone on the left.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
It has a right/centre-right majority.

A lot of European right-wing parties are mislabeled.

Why is a centre-right coalition favouring the rights of big business over the people 'left'?

As it include regulations that will kill a part of internet culture thus is a form of censorship as it does not maintain Fair Use.


They tend to have names like Christian-Democrats, and the Conservative Party

Yet their policies are left-wing more often than not. Also the Democratic People's Republic of Korea is really democratic due to including the word in the name.
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Do not conflate liberals with the Dem party and it's history.
I meant that the word liberal means differnt things.

If European "left" is against that law and European "right" is for that law, can we say that it's the left's fault? It doesn't make much sense, since the more left you go, the more likely you are against the articles. Of course there are people like nationalists who make the exception.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
I meant that the word liberal means differnt things.

If European "left" is against that law and European "right" is for that law, can we say that it's the left's fault?

The political parties would be.

It doesn't make much sense, since the more left you go, the more likely you are against the articles. Of course there are people like nationalists who make the exception.

I see it as part censorship
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
Why would it be a disaster. Literally nobody involved wants to destroy the internet so why would the legislation be implemented or applied in a way which could achieve that. The very fact the opponents interpretations are so extreme and negative is the reason those interpretations are never going to be applied in practice. This is far from perfect and there will inevitably be some issues and difficult edge cases to deal with but there are issues and difficult edge cases right now which the legislation is trying to address. It will not be the massive international disaster the extreme opponents predict unless they choose to make that happen.
The same system has been tried in less extreme form in Spain and it resulted in less freedom of press. I don't know what you'd categorize as disaster, but the shift in direction toward less freedom on the internet and using bots to censor content based on it being possibly using parts of other content found on the net. It should be troubling for anyone regardless of their beliefs.

I already get to less US sites than I used to, because they don't welcome EU visitors due to our laws. They know EU is one to slap massive fines on those who break them.

See how google deals with the current situation even before the articles are used:
EU Slaps Google With $1.7BN Antitrust Fine | LegalWeek

I think EU just might slap twitch, google, wikipedia out of existence. Maybe they'll just stop receiving European visitors like many US news sites that block us already.

Schools will need to review their study materials because those might include "fair use", it will get expensive from here on to keep a public school system.
 
A lot of European right-wing parties are mislabeled.

Centre-right parties tend to have centre right ideologies.

As it include regulations that will kill a part of internet culture thus is a form of censorship as it does not maintain Fair Use.

The bill is not to censor the internet but to enforce IP laws as corporations have been extensively lobbying for for years.

If the purpose was censorship, why would they specifically exempt memes from the law?

Yet their policies are left-wing more often than not.

Don't be daft.

So far we have a centre right coalition passing an IP law in favour of big business that specifically exempts memes, yet it is in fact a left wing attempt at censoring of memes because they see them as a threat.

Can't argue with that logic... :D
 

Jumi

Well-Known Member
So far we have a centre right coalition passing an IP law in favour of big business that specifically exempts memes, yet it is in fact a left wing attempt at censoring of memes because they see them as a threat.
According to one MEP here who voted differently than other conservatives, it might still effectively censor memes even if it isn't "intended to" because the machine learning algorithms might see the memes as potential copyright infringements. But you're right that they don't intend to move against memes. Same thing might happen to schools and their study materials...
 

Shad

Veteran Member
But you see no difference as the "extreme left" is on the same side of the debate here as you and me.

No as two groups can agree on something.


It is going toward that, yes. It's aimed at both populist, nationalists and the left.

I still see it as a form of censorship which I see increasingly from left-wing party and individuals in the EU.
 

Shad

Veteran Member
Centre-right parties tend to have centre right ideologies.

Yet the policies are left-wing.



The bill is not to censor the internet but to enforce IP laws as corporations have been extensively lobbying for for years.

So? It is about those in charge that passed it.

If the purpose was censorship, why would they specifically exempt memes from the law?

The exemption was made later after push back



Don't be daft.

I do not see EU as a bastion of conservatism.

So far we have a centre right coalition passing an IP law in favour of big business that specifically exempts memes, yet it is in fact a left wing attempt at censoring of memes because they see them as a threat.

Again those party's policies are far more left-wing.

Can't argue with that logic... :D

Welfare state...... Totally a right-wing concept right....
 
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