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Study: Psychiatric Diagnoses Are ‘Scientifically Meaningless’ In Treating Mental Health

Discussion in 'The Living World' started by Landon Caeli, Jul 9, 2019.

  1. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    It looks to me like psychiatric diagnoses are used now almost exclusively for drug marketing purposes.
     
  2. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Easy lazy it is!!!!
    Coddle neurosis neurotics live it, and love it as they hate the outcome.!

    What exactly did you think mental illness is? Virus!? Bacteria? Epilesy?...to funny.
    Lol.
     
  3. Erebus

    Erebus Well-Known Member

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    Your cluelessness on this subject is astounding.

    We're done here.
     
  4. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Coddling neurosis profound. Yea totally clueless great therapy.
    . You have zero idea who i am.
     
  5. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    @David T Perpetual daily use of psychiatric drugs, pretending to treat illnesses, looks to me very much like what used to be called “drug abuse,” with all the same motivations and consequences, for people doing it and for society. In today’s upside down world, what used to be widely considered drug abuse is now being aggressively promoted by health institutions, and sometimes even legally imposed. It looks to me like the diagnoses are being used now almost exclusively for drug marketing purposes.
     
  6. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Spot on jim. I am not insensitive to the issue. People dont know me at all or my life.
    Neurosis is the issue. About 95% at least is driven by neurosis. Many in fact will have to be on meds for a life time they are too far gone.
    But, some if they are willing to work hard, jim, extremely hard they can over come the issues that has landed them there and be med free. Thats a fact. I call it lazy if you dont do that. And boy how dare i i have no idea has been the flames from the coddled. ! Thats way to funny. I actually know a lot. I am like jung, experiences and all in this regard. .

    To be honest if you land there mentally neurotic. Own It grow up. That is the issue they really do not want to own it seriously. What the want is to be coddled and the ability to blame anthing but themselves. Its "my brain" is a classic blame. Yes, your brain is being an idiot.

    The industry is a lot of coddling. Because the money is in coddling psychologically and pharmaceutical money. There is a conflict of interest to reality right there.

    Jim i talked with someone today, i told him what has been said here how i have no clue. He laughed and he said "they dont realize their whining proved you correct". He also knows my life.!!!! No whining folks grow up you are not to far lost down the road. Neurosis, the luxury by product of civilization.
     
  7. dybmh

    dybmh Terminal Optimist
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    I think Doctors are in a very difficult position. It could be that fear of litigation is the driver. What needs to happen is this: Doctors need to be aware of signs that the diagnosis is flawed and that treatment is no longer a benefit. The indicator that was mentioned in the article is consistent increase in dosage of medication. When a patient is in this situation, and they realize it, they may decide to seek legal recourse. They may feel the Doctor did harm to them by prescribing the medication. But the Doctor needs protection from litigation of loss of license for unintentionally causing harm if the patient goes off their medication and has a relapse.

    On the flip side:

    If a Doctor recognizes that their patient may have been misdiagnosed, may be addicted to their medication, if they alert their patient to this, and the Doctor is wrong; That could lead to very serious ( possibly fatal ) consequences for the patient. Even if the patient does not take their own or another person's life, if they relapse and end up in the hospital, that could be cause for a complaint to the medical board, loss of license, or worse.

    The safest approach from a Doctor's perspective is: Keep the patient medicated; Once Diagnosed, Always Diagnosed. It's up the patient to depart from Psychiatric treatment. The harm done to the patient from the stigma and chemical dependency outweighs the risk of encouraging patients to question their diagnosis and treatment.

    Edit to add:

    There needs to be protection for the Doctor who takes action to help a patient recover from being misdiagnosed and mistreated. Until that protection is in place, it is safest to maintain status quo.
     
    #47 dybmh, Jul 11, 2019 at 8:27 PM
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 8:45 PM
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  8. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    @David T Also, what used to be widely recognized as treating symptoms without doing anything about what’s causing them, is now masquerading as remedies for what’s causing them. Syndromes have been re-labeled in the books as “disorders,” and “dependence” and “withdrawal symptoms” have been redefined and customized for the purpose of facilitating drug marketing.
     
    #48 Jim, Jul 11, 2019 at 8:33 PM
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2019 at 9:52 PM
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  9. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    The whole thing is crazier than the patients.. No wonder we are having issues!!!

    If i were to teach mental illness as a study. I would walk to one side of the chaulk board and write "i" i would walk to the other side and write "brain". I would then point to that word and say 4 billion years of evolutionary development or and walk over to the "I" a single life time of existing. Which is the problem? Why is there a gap?
    And point to the gap thats increasing not decreasing. Most mental patients really love " my brain is causing" statements. We are our brains. sorry its dysfunctioning you are dysfunctional own it at the word "i"

    Oh that is not what folks want to hear. Own it. They love the gap. Trust me thats a terrible business plan if you are a therapist to tell the patient. i got flamed by the gap lovers here. Predictible, totally predictible, and thus behavioral or automatic. I have gotten grief from patients before for telling them own it.

    I know jim what i am talking about when say own it. Had to 30 years ago. Hard, but honest, and hard work. Honesty...... Not easy sometimes. I am not lazy.
     
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  10. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Have you ever been involved with mental health care?
     
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  11. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I was diagnosed as psychotic disorder: NOS once. That was struck from my chart.
     
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  12. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    Yes, very deeply and personally.

    I want add to what I said, that I would not want anyone to try to detoxify without doing a lot of careful research of their own, and having it supervised by a doctor, or a carefully researched detoxifying center. Detoxifying can be very harmful, dangerous, and even fatal. People can learn some things about it on the Internet, and there are support forums, but there’s a lot of misinformation about it on all sides, just like there is on other topics
     
  13. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Then knock your **** off and quit telling those who have been prescribed medications they are abusing drugs!
     
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  14. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I think this is key. A friend of mine worked for years in inner city housing where mental health is a central issue. We had a 'not acting normally' individual come to our Hindu temple. A few people had approached her in friendly ways, but were getting frustrated. My friend's approach was different. She simply stated, "I'd be willing to talk to you when you get back on your meds." In other words, it was blatantly obvious to my friend, due to her years of working with similar folks.

    This reinforced for me the idea that experience in this field (and true in many other fields) means so much.

    As a teacher I occasionally would encounter the anti-Ritalin crowd. But experience with 3 or 4 students whose entire lives had been changed over it made me see things in not so black and white (anti or pro) terms. Yes sometimes it was the wrong solution, but yes sometimes it was a miracle drug.

    Not taking a drug that is obviously beneficial to mental health, is about as silly as the anti-vaccine crowd. Same result perhaps.
     
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  15. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    Experience does make a difference, but you shouldn't need it to know that telling people to quit taking their meds is bad, or to know better than many of the false beliefs and statements being circulated here. It does help to spot those with absolutely none (pretty much everyone here who has insisted they know better and have it figured out for those with a mental illness). Truly, I have a hard time comprehending where people get off on thinking they, who have no formal training, no schooling, and no clinical experience, have it all figured out when it comes to mental illness. That is a dangerous way of thinking, and if it were up to me it would be criminal as they aren't a doctor, they aren't a therapist, they aren't even a case worker and yet there they are spewing out "advice" and "suggestions" that can be very dire, devastating, and destructive for other people.
     
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  16. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    I totally concur. But OTOH, there are many whose advice is 'Please go see your doctor,' when incoherent individuals arrive on this forum. So for every egomaniac helper out there, there are probably also 10 times as many helpful people.

    But folks are folks. If they won't move, they won't move. Look at the opposition still to banning gender conversion therapy. Statistics of harm are of no value.

    One of the problems of mental illness is that there are few records in the past. We just locked people up in institutions until they died.
     
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  17. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    That is true, and "please go see your doctor" is really the only ethical, proper, and sound advice that can be given in those situation. That is telling someone, rightfully so, to seek qualified help. Telling people to quit taking their meds (it happens a lot here), spewing out fake/wrong/pseudo diagnoses, stuff like that is dangerous.
    Ultimately they don't have research or facts to support them, and their opinion is utterly irrelevant. They shouldn't necessarily be silenced, but rigorously opposed, highly scrutinized, with a firm and unyielding "your views are a toxic poison" to ensure such things never become normalized (such as with anti-vaxxers, who themselves are destructive to the point of deserving no considerations).
     
  18. Jim

    Jim Nets of Wonder

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    I want to try to explain better what I’m thinking about this. First I want to say again that I would not want anyone to stop taking any drugs without professional supervision or without doing some research on their own on drug detoxification.

    A person who is taking drugs every day to get relief from some psychological adversities might decide that they don’t want to live that way for the rest of their life. Sometimes it’s just because they don’t like living that way and they want to live a better life. Some other reasons might be because of the damage it does to people’s bodies, to their lives and to the lives of people around them. They might also have some awareness of the possibilities in life that they’re missing. I’ve learned that in spite of all the pressure on doctors to prescribe drugs, any doctor who sees that a patient really wants to detoxify might be willing to help. At the same time, most people might need help from a counselor who can help them them find relief from their emotional adversities without drugs. My wife says that she thinks that people still are embarrassed about seeing a counselor. Maybe sometimes people aren’t aware of feeling that way.

    If a person can’t get help from a counselor, or along with seeing a counselor, they might find books or websites that can help them help themselves. I found two good websites for that using cognitive behavior therapy.

    I want to say again that I would not want anyone to stop taking any drugs without professional supervision or without doing some research on their own on drug detoxification.
     
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