Study of Matthew

[metis]

What is the significance of tracing the ancestry of Jesus through Joseph if Joseph isnt biologically related to Jesus?

Personally, I don't put any stock in it whatsoever, but what the author, imo, is trying to do is to make the connection between David and Jesus. Plus, we have to remember that their society back then was highly patriarchal and family was highly important even if you weren't born into it. It's like when my Sicilian wife's parents were alive, I called them "Mom" and "Dad" as if they were my own parents, and if I had not done that it would have seen as being highly offensive.

In Italian, there's a phrase "La familia e tutta", "the family is everything", and Jewish society very much viewed it much in the same way. Being American, it took me a while to make the paradigm shift to both understand and appreciate that.

 

[metis]

As I view this manifestation, it that changes the view of what one reads in the Tanakh and, as I view it, begins to lean support that God is much more that what was understood and/or interpreted.

I agree, so we must be right!

[for others reading this, please note my "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts]

 

[metis]

I find the inclusion of Magi on the one hand and Herod and all of Jerusalem on the other seems to be a means to knock Judaism down a peg by unfavorably comparing it (if Herod and all Jerusalem can be seen as a reference to the condition of Hudaism at the time) to a foreign religion. The devout Magi on a personal, spiritual journey know and Jerusalem does not know.

To my mind the author of Matthew has already in mind the argument for the need for a new religion.

It obviously ended up being that way, although I think that Jesus was trying to reform Judaism along his quite liberal lines. With only limited success in converting Jews, I think the apostles, especially through Paul, expanded the appeal to "God-Fearers" and other gentiles. With Matthew's relatively late writing, I agree with you that this is likely being reflected.

 

[metis]

I wonder then again about Chapter 1s genealogy and how the author of Matthew saw the genealogy and Joseph's own trouble of a virgin wife with child...is there intended irony here?

The question I would have, albeit unanswerable today, is whether Matthew and others actually believe that Mary was literally a virgin or was this included in two of the gospels to glorify Jesus? Obviously, these writings are highly subjective with various forms of symbolism often being used, so I tend to lean away from objective thinking much of the time. An imprecise art, no doubt.

 

[Kenny]

I agree, so we must be right!

[for others reading this, please note my "My Faith Statement" at the bottom of my posts]

Hey, as old as we are, we MUST have SOME wisdom, however slight it might be.

 

[Kenny]

To my mind the author of Matthew has already in mind the argument for the need for a new religion.

And yet there seems to be substance to the thought as in Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

In that it is with the house of Judah and not the house of the Levites, it gives the understanding that an old system will pass away and a new one will begin.

The thought bleeds through in Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

 

[Kenny]

The question I would have, albeit unanswerable today, is whether Matthew and others actually believe that Mary was literally a virgin or was this included in two of the gospels to glorify Jesus? Obviously, these writings are highly subjective with various forms of symbolism often being used, so I tend to lean away from objective thinking much of the time. An imprecise art, no doubt.

As a more conservative interpreter, giving the reality that there are symbolism in play, I would hold to the fact that everything must have a witness of two (Matthew-Luke) and more-so if those who wrote lived in the time given.

You can see my faith statement at the end to follow @metis example

 

[metis]

And yet there seems to be substance to the thought as in Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:

In that it is with the house of Judah and not the house of the Levites, it gives the understanding that an old system will pass away and a new one will begin.

The thought bleeds through in Hebrews 8:13 In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

A different interpretation of that "new covenant" as found in Jeremiah is that we will be judged as individuals versus the community as a whole.

 

[metis]

As a more conservative interpreter, giving the reality that there are symbolism in play, I would hold to the fact that everything must have a witness of two (Matthew-Luke) and more-so if those who wrote lived in the time given.

Ya, but which two witnesses would be able to tell that Mary was indeed a "virgin"?

BTW, all three of our children think that they were a by-product of immaculate conceptions.

 

[metis]

Chapter 4 Overview:

Jesus is tempted in the wilderness by the devil but prevails.

Jesus moves to the north to the town of Capernaum on the Sea of Galilee and preaches "reform" and to announce that "the Kingdom is at hand".

Jesus attracts his first disciples/apostles as they were fishing, and tells them that they will become "fishers of men".

Jesus begins curing people.

 

[metis]

My Take:

I don't have a problem accepting Jesus going into the wilderness and probably praying and contemplating, but I'm not much one to accept the issue about the devil. Instead, this could be another throw-back to the experiences of Moses and the people in the Exodus, with the frustrations and temptations that they and he had to endure.

Even though both Judaism and Christianity are linear in their theology, there's many "loops" in that line-- "flashbacks" of sorts. This is especially a reoccurring theme in the early chapters of Matthew.

Moving to the town of Capernaum I tend to believe is both symbolic and real. On the symbolic side, there's that this relatively small town whereas it was prophesied that the Northern Kingdom would be reunited, although that happened in reality much earlier on. However, this I believe is likely another "loop" of sorts. BTW, I did visit it in 1991 and saw what they know know with certainty was Peter's house where Jesus also stayed, whereas the synagogue was only maybe 40 yards or so away. That was quite a find.

The attraction towards and commitment of the "common people" permeates the gospels, which is really quite a radical concept both back then and even nowadays. A prevailing belief then was that if you had God's pleasure, good things would happen to you. Instead, Jesus attacks the powerful and the wealthy but praises the laborers, the poor, and the outcastes (some people today should remind their pastors of that), and then makes leaders out of them! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Finally, I've never much been a proponent of faith healers, but I do believe prayer and people can help one to heal, or at least make their suffering and death more acceptable. I've been married for 51 years-- oh, I'd better stop here.

 

[sealchan]

My Take:

I don't have a problem accepting Jesus going into the wilderness and probably praying and contemplating, but I'm not much one to accept the issue about the devil. Instead, this could be another throw-back to the experiences of Moses and the people in the Exodus, with the frustrations and temptations that they and he had to endure.

Even though both Judaism and Christianity are linear in their theology, there's many "loops" in that line-- "flashbacks" of sorts. This is especially a reoccurring theme in the early chapters of Matthew.

Moving to the town of Capernaum I tend to believe is both symbolic and real. On the symbolic side, there's that this relatively small town whereas it was prophesied that the Northern Kingdom would be reunited, although that happened in reality much earlier on. However, this I believe is likely another "loop" of sorts. BTW, I did visit it in 1991 and saw what they know know with certainty was Peter's house where Jesus also stayed, whereas the synagogue was only maybe 40 yards or so away. That was quite a find.

The attraction towards and commitment of the "common people" permeates the gospels, which is really quite a radical concept both back then and even nowadays. A prevailing belief then was that if you had God's pleasure, good things would happen to you. Instead, Jesus attacks the powerful and the wealthy but praises the laborers, the poor, and the outcastes (some people today should remind their pastors of that), and then makes leaders out of them! Whaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

Finally, I've never much been a proponent of faith healers, but I do believe prayer and people can help one to heal, or at least make their suffering and death more acceptable. I've been married for 51 years-- oh, I'd better stop here.

The feedback I have given so far comes about largely from recognizing a deep similarity in elements of Jesus' life in Matthew's gospel to those of the Buddha. Both were born miraculously experienced three temptations from a divine demonic being, started their teaching career immediately thereafter. Other similarities are claimed but I have not explored those at this time.

What this brought to mind was how the author of Matthew was trying to carve out a basis for a new religion, one which was already forming and for which a gospel was seen as a means to build that religion through inspirational scripture informed by that new religion. The Buddha was a figure who arose to challenge the spiritual authorities of his time, the Brahmin, in a deep way. Clearly, in the first few chapters, Matthew has set up the present day Jewish authorities for a fall in favor of a new spirit of teaching that has arisen, as in the case of the Buddha, out of the old teachings but not in complete break with them. As such the mythic figure of the Buddha and his stories were a likely influence on a gospel writer hoping to accomplish the same for Christianity as the story tellers in India did for Buddhism.

Recognizing the story-tellers craft of borrowing elements of related stories, creating dramatic tension through the conflict between groups of people, setting up the problem for which the hero, Jesus, would be the solution, etc...we can see the literary tools at play in the crafting of the narrative of the life of Jesus.

 

[metis]

The feedback I have given so far comes about largely from recognizing a deep similarity in elements of Jesus' life in Matthew's gospel to those of the Buddha. Both were born miraculously experienced three temptations from a divine demonic being, started their teaching career immediately thereafter. Other similarities are claimed but I have not explored those at this time.

Yes, as I have a book on their comparisons. Very interesting.

What this brought to mind was how the author of Matthew was trying to carve out a basis for a new religion, one which was already forming and for which a gospel was seen as a means to build that religion through inspirational scripture informed by that new religion.

Since Matthew's gospel was written several decades after Jesus' death, plus that Gentiles were probably converting in much greater numbers than Jews, I tend to more lean in that he was recognizing the reality that the Church was drifting away from normative Judaism.

Clearly, in the first few chapters, Matthew has set up the present day Jewish authorities for a fall in favor of a new spirit of teaching that has arisen, as in the case of the Buddha, out of the old teachings but not in complete break with them.

Agreed.

As such the mythic figure of the Buddha

But are you certain he's "mythical"?

Recognizing the story-tellers craft of borrowing elements of related stories, creating dramatic tension through the conflict between groups of people, setting up the problem for which the hero, Jesus, would be the solution, etc...we can see the literary tools at play in the crafting of the narrative of the life of Jesus.

Well said, imo, thanks for your input on this, and have a great weekend!

 

[metis]

@KenS, where are ya? Looking forward to your take on this.

 

[Kenny]

@KenS, where are ya? Looking forward to your take on this.

Been busy... but I WILL be adding.

 

[metis]

Been busy... but I WILL be adding.

Thanks as I also have to sign-off for the weekend.

 

[Kenny]

The Temptation - Personal musings

1 John 2:16 For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world.

Interesting analogies between Eve and Jesus (IMV) Triune being of man:

Flesh: And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food,
Mind: and that it was pleasant to the eyes,
Spirit: and a tree to be desired to make one wise,

Likewise Jesus:

Flesh 3 If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread. But he answered and said, It is written,
Mind: 5 6 And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
Spirit: 9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if thou wilt fall down and worship me.

I can see why Jesus is called the Second Adam.

Another interesting point between the two is the question that so many people address "Did God really say":

Eve:3 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the LordGod had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?
Jesus: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.

Both were tempted about the knowledge of what God said.

 

[Kenny]

Capernaum = "village of comfort"

Interesting note: Jesus is a comforter and the comforter of Israel and of the worlds.

Fulfilling:14 That it might be fulfilled which was spoken by Esaias the prophet, saying, 15 The land of Zabulon, and the land of Nephthalim, by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, Galilee of the Gentiles; 16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.

 

[Kenny]

Side bunny rabbit trail"

Being led of the Spirit:

We have a saying in our circles that "God is so supernatural then it feels natural". In other words, so many time we just think we are doing all the guiding of thoughts and it is so natural that we don't realize that God can and IMV does help us along the way.

Like my wife at the age of 11 burying her head in the pillow of the bed she share with her two other siblings praying for three years: "God, send me a blue eyed American to take me to the US". To be frank, how it came about that my brother rented a room in her house is every bit a miracle. IMV.

Or just last week, I am thinking about having a cup of coffee and then not going to have a cup of coffee. I decided I was going to stop at one Starbucks and then decided that it would be a different Starbucks. As I am sitting drinking, a person I hadn't seen in years (who wasn't going to have a cup of coffee and then, at the last minute, decided to have one) came there. He had experienced a God moment just days before and really had to rededicate his life to Jesus.

Coincidence? Some people say yes and in many cases it would be. But as time has gone by, I realize the "the steps of the righteous are ordered by the Lord" and it happens too often to not think that God's Holy Spirit is involved here.

 

[Kenny]

Finally, I've never much been a proponent of faith healers, but I do believe prayer and people can help one to heal, or at least make their suffering and death more acceptable. I've been married for 51 years-- oh, I'd better stop here.

I am a proponent of receiving and ministering healing through faith and fully support doctors too. Besides what I believe God's anointing can do when faith is in operation, there are still some benefits that modern medicine understands:

What are the health benefits of affective touch?