Students injured when Monterey County teacher accidentally fires handgun in class

[Twilight Hue]

Put more guns in any location and get more gun deaths. Simple as that.

Nobody died.

 

[idav]

The "not allowed" only applies to people who follow rules, though, dont you think?

I wouldn’t mind treating schools like federal buildings like courts and assume people want to get in and do harm. That doesn’t mean arm all the federal employees it means having measures to keep harm out as much as possible. Sure there are crazies that will even draw a gun in a room full of cops.

Edit : i say this because schools seem to get more threats than anything I ever hear of.

 

[Falvlun]

Lets see. One bad guy,one gun, 50 unarmed victims, 50 dead, plus the attacker, probably. 51 total.

One bad guy with one gun, one or more good guys with guns t o fight back.

Which room would you prefer to be in?

I want to be in the room where the bad guy only has a knife.

 

[Revoltingest]

Sorry I disagree with item 1. The time to draw, chamber a round, aim, and fire could cost one their life. That is unless they use the IDF method and are really really good at it. Remember a firearm is only as safe as the person operating the firearm. Some that carry the 1911 style carry in Condition 1 "cocked and locked" it is as safe as the operator. Also 99.999999% of holsters cover the trigger.
My daily carry is ether a Glock or S&W M&P Shield (no manual safety, trigger safety only) and a round is chambered.

This is a common & reasonable disagreement, so no worries.

It takes little time to chamber a round.
But that little time prevents accidents (among the less than adequately trained).....& threads like this one.
Condition one is best for aggressive highly trained users in high risk situations.
Chamber empty is best for the rest of us (IMO, of course).
In a school setting, it strikes me as highly unlikely that a staffer would need
that extra fraction of a second. Moreover, no staffer should be in a frame
of mind demanding such an extra quick & automatic response.

And in the real world of less than objective news coverage, a deadly
accident would receive far far more coverage than a successful defense.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

in spite of the horror of mass shootings.....the event is considered unlikely to happen to you
in spite of alleged expertise .....misfires happen

the the genie we call the gun in not going back into the bottle

let's not poster child the worst of us.....when passing a law
let's not point to the idiot.....when discussing the law

and I will keep my gun
and if I worked in a school.....I would carry one

Then best believe if you accidentally shoot my kid because you're too stupid to not keep your weapon holstered and the safety on, your mother better have that black dress ready for your return to the earth. Sure enough you would never be able to teach again.

 

[tytlyf]

Nobody died.

This time. It's happened plenty in the past. More guns in locations = more gun accidents/deaths.
This isn't up for discussion.

 

[esmith]

This is a common & reasonable disagreement, so no worries.

It takes little time to chamber a round.
But that little time prevents accidents (among the less than adequately trained).....& threads like this one.
Condition one is best for aggressive highly trained users in high risk situations.
Chamber empty is best for the rest of us (IMO, of course).
In a school setting, it strikes me as highly unlikely that a staffer would need
that extra fraction of a second. Moreover, no staffer should be in a frame
of mind demanding such an extra quick & automatic response.

And in the real world of less than objective news coverage, a deadly
accident would receive far far more coverage than a successful defense.

Points well taken as far as the school situation goes,
Another point, my wife has a somewhat hard time racking the slide on her personal firearm, she has a revolver but the bulk (IHO) is too much to carry concealed. Therefore she prefers the semi-auto with a round chambered. In addition in a high stress situation, unless you train almost daily, drawing and chambering a round is difficult. Therefore IHO practicing drawing and aiming (cleared weapon) is more beneficial that trying to improve the strength to rack the slide (minor arthritis plays a part also).

 

[esmith]

Then best believe if you accidentally shoot my kid because you're too stupid to not keep your weapon holstered and the safety on, your mother better have that black dress ready for your return to the earth. Sure enough you would never be able to teach again.

Glocks do not have a manual safety along with other striker fired semi-autos. Just being nitpicking about your safety comment.

 

[Audie]

I wouldn’t mind treating schools like federal buildings like courts and assume people want to get in and do harm. That doesn’t mean arm all the federal employees it means having measures to keep harm out as much as possible. Sure there are crazies that will even draw a gun in a room full of cops.

Edit : i say this because schools seem to get more threats than anything I ever hear of.

If we have to have a security fence, and an armed presence there, then I guess that is what we will have to do.

Room full of cops?

 

[Revoltingest]

Points well taken as far as the school situation goes,
Another point, my wife has a somewhat hard time racking the slide on her personal firearm, she has a revolver but the bulk (IHO) is too much to carry concealed. Therefore she prefers the semi-auto with a round chambered. In addition in a high stress situation, unless you train almost daily, drawing and chambering a round is difficult. Therefore IHO practicing drawing and aiming (cleared weapon) is more beneficial that trying to improve the strength to rack the slide (minor arthritis plays a part also).

I switched from a revolver to a semi-auto partly because of greater concealability.
Capacity & more natural pointing are also better.
Training to rack the slide automatically & smoothly requires an investment in time,
but eventually practice needn't be daily. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing.

 

[esmith]

This time. It's happened plenty in the past. More guns in locations = more gun accidents/deaths.
This isn't up for discussion.

How about getting your facts right.
And before you challenge the source as I know you and others will do the facts come from
from the below link
"The NSC’s “Injury Facts -2017 Edition” shows a 17 percent decrease in accidents involving firearms from 2014 to 2015, a period when gun sales soared."
Accidental gun deaths hit record low, even amid recent boom in firearms sales

 

[esmith]

I switched from a revolver to a semi-auto partly because of greater concealability.
Capacity & more natural pointing are also better.
Training to rack the slide automatically & smoothly requires an investment in time,
but eventually practice needn't be daily. Muscle memory is a wonderful thing.

Agreed about muscle memory, but if one does not have the necessary muscle, the memory doesn't work.
Agreed daily practice is not necessary to rack and aim, but under stress situations one might forget that a round is not chambered and the safety (if one present) is off. I have seen this in competitions when the timer goes off and the shooter is in the ready position and just forgot to take the safety off....very embarrassing and ruins a good run)

 

[Revoltingest]

Agreed about muscle memory, but if one does not have the necessary muscle, the memory doesn't work.
Agreed daily practice is not necessary to rack and aim, but under stress situations one might forget that a round is not chambered and the safety (if one present) is off. I have seen this in competitions when the timer goes off and the shooter is in the ready position and just forgot to take the safety off....very embarrassing and ruins a good run)

Aye, & this is why I carry only one handgun & only in that one carry mode.
I find that a singular reflex is the only practical approach.
It took years to find the optimum gun, ammunition, holster & method....
Glock #22 with Glaser Blues in a Kramer IWB strong side FBI tilt under a loose Hawaiian shirt.
The only thing I'll allow to vary is the Hawaiian shirt.

 

[james bond]

That sort of gun safety stuff is common sense. What’s even easier than all that is not allowing weapons at schools.

Weapons aren't allowed at school. This is why he's in trouble and will be punished, even fired or put in jail. If one is to carry a gun, then they should be taught the rules of gun safety in class. Maybe gun safety and its use should be a requirement for high school. Then we would have tools that show the mechanism of a gun, but not as a weapon. I wish everyone had this COMMON sense. Common sense isn't that common.

 

[Audie]

Weapons aren't allowed at school. This is why he's in trouble and will be punished, even fired or put in jail. If one is to carry a gun, then they should be taught the rules of gun safety in class. Maybe gun safety and its use should be a requirement for high school. Then we would have tools that show the mechanism of a gun, but not as a weapon. I wish everyone had this COMMON sense. Common sense isn't that common.

You are one of the uncommon ones?

 

[james bond]

If we have to have a security fence, and an armed presence there, then I guess that is what we will have to do.

Room full of cops?

Nah, room full of glocks. I noticed they kept the camera on the gun for a skosh long. Glocks are cool.

Really, it's about hitting your target when you fire and then your choice of weapon.

 

[james bond]

You are one of the uncommon ones?

In regards to gun safety? The rules of gun safety should always be followed, but it's too common that they aren't, as from this news. Shooting a gun? I am pretty good.

 

[esmith]

Aye, & this is why I carry only one handgun & only in that one carry mode.
I find that a singular reflex is the only practical approach.
It took years to find the optimum gun, ammunition, holster & method....
Glock #22 with Glaser Blues in a Kramer IWB strong side FBI tilt under a loose Hawaiian shirt.
The only thing I'll allow to vary is the Hawaiian shirt.

Hawaiian shirt....Yuk
S&W M&P Shield 9mm Hornady Critical Defense 115 gr Concealment Express IWB kydex
When I'm riding in the boonies Ruger SR45 in a Uncle Mikes Sidekick
Glock G45 same ammo (spouse) We the People IWB kydex

 

[sun rise]

You say "even a cop", but I've been pointing out that much of
military & police training is woefully wrong regarding safety.
Some basic rules I'd impose.
- Always carry chamber empty (semi-auto).
- Carry the gun in a secure concealed holster (which of course, completely covers the trigger).
- On school grounds: Leave the gun in the holster, unless attacked.
- Never put a finger on the trigger unless intending to fire.
- Know that all guns are loaded (even when they're not).

I agree with all those points. My "even a cop" comment was to point out that supposedly well-trained individuals can and do make stupid mistakes.

 

[Audie]

In regards to gun safety? The rules of gun safety should always be followed, but it's too common that they aren't, as from this news. Shooting a gun? I am pretty good.

My boyfriend spent a long time teaching me to shoot .
First had to convince me it was even safe to touch a gun, like it wont suddenly get me like a cobra might!

I think anyone would be satisfied now that I know
the common sense of safety. And that I could
shoot a a pistol moderately well.

Well, that is in the past, the gun is sold and the boyfriend long gone. But it was good to learn, much as I doubt I would ever own a gun again.