• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Straight People Don't Exist, Research Says

Skwim

Veteran Member
"A 2015 study shows that human sexuality is fluid and women are hornier than you think.

A 2015 study published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology undermines long held beliefs about heteronormative sexual orientation. The study looks at gender expression in women and measures their physiological response viewing a variety of pornographic material. It found that, regardless of how women self report their sexuality, their bodies respond positively to both hetero- and homosexual sex. Meaning, women's sexuality is complex and not within the bounds of strict hetero- or homosexuality.

Following popular logic, sexuality is thought of as straight or gay. Bisexuality has only recently begun to be taken seriously. The idea of separate, static, and neatly defined sexual orientations is woven into the fabric of American society and is part of our cultural conception of gender itself; real men are masculine and attracted to women.

The results of Savin-Williams' study challenges deeply held cultural beliefs about sexuality, but he's not surprised to find that sexuality is more complex than gay and straight. "I'm certainly not surprised," he says. "We're trying to get at the way people really are. Sometimes, it seems people are one way but believe they have to report themselves in another way, and that's not good."

Savin-Williams explains that the motivation for individuals to inaccurately self report their desire is a consequence of restrictive social influence: the norms that determine how individuals are perceived and treated. He's been working on an idea that he calls the mostly straight male. "We've always recognized mostly straight women, that is, women who mostly are straight but if the right woman comes along, well maybe she'll try it out. We used to think that was only a female phenomenon."

"We show straight men a picture of a woman masturbating and they respond just like a straight guy, but then you also show them a guy masturbating and their eyes dilate a little bit. So we're actually able to show physiologically that all guys are not either gay, straight, or bi." The various parts of Savin-Williams' study collectively address sexuality in both men and women, showing that boring ideas, such as that people are either 100 percent straight or gay, don't endure under objective, scientific scrutiny.

"I do see this loosening of the boundaries," [Savin-Williams ] says. "I think that's happening for both sexes. It's probably a good thing, because it gives kids growing up more diversity, more options, so they don't feel like they have to fit in [at all costs]. Straight women and straight men feel much more comfortable than ever before in going into the realm of the other sex in terms of gender role and how they act."

Even though an individual with an LGBT gender or sexual identity may endure undue social discrimination and prejudice, from the perspective of one's humanity, it may be a privilege to be queer, because you've been given cause to question the norms that govern identity in a way heterosexual, cisgender individuals may not have. Repressive gender culture might cause material harm to people who fall closer to the queer part of the continuum, but those boundaries limit everybody by disallowing the individual to explore the depth, breadth, and scope of their humanity.

"If you look at women, the self esteem of lesbian women tends to be higher than that of straight women," Savin-Williams explains. "Maybe they feel like they have more freedom [to be who they really are]. Granted, society may not always like it, but it is your own authentic self."

source

.​
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
"A 2015 study shows that human sexuality is fluid and women are hornier than you think.

A 2015 study published in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology undermines long held beliefs about heteronormative sexual orientation. The study looks at gender expression in women and measures their physiological response viewing a variety of pornographic material. It found that, regardless of how women self report their sexuality, their bodies respond positively to both hetero- and homosexual sex. Meaning, women's sexuality is complex and not within the bounds of strict hetero- or homosexuality.

Following popular logic, sexuality is thought of as straight or gay. Bisexuality has only recently begun to be taken seriously. The idea of separate, static, and neatly defined sexual orientations is woven into the fabric of American society and is part of our cultural conception of gender itself; real men are masculine and attracted to women.

The results of Savin-Williams' study challenges deeply held cultural beliefs about sexuality, but he's not surprised to find that sexuality is more complex than gay and straight. "I'm certainly not surprised," he says. "We're trying to get at the way people really are. Sometimes, it seems people are one way but believe they have to report themselves in another way, and that's not good."

Savin-Williams explains that the motivation for individuals to inaccurately self report their desire is a consequence of restrictive social influence: the norms that determine how individuals are perceived and treated. He's been working on an idea that he calls the mostly straight male. "We've always recognized mostly straight women, that is, women who mostly are straight but if the right woman comes along, well maybe she'll try it out. We used to think that was only a female phenomenon."

"We show straight men a picture of a woman masturbating and they respond just like a straight guy, but then you also show them a guy masturbating and their eyes dilate a little bit. So we're actually able to show physiologically that all guys are not either gay, straight, or bi." The various parts of Savin-Williams' study collectively address sexuality in both men and women, showing that boring ideas, such as that people are either 100 percent straight or gay, don't endure under objective, scientific scrutiny.

"I do see this loosening of the boundaries," [Savin-Williams ] says. "I think that's happening for both sexes. It's probably a good thing, because it gives kids growing up more diversity, more options, so they don't feel like they have to fit in [at all costs]. Straight women and straight men feel much more comfortable than ever before in going into the realm of the other sex in terms of gender role and how they act."

Even though an individual with an LGBT gender or sexual identity may endure undue social discrimination and prejudice, from the perspective of one's humanity, it may be a privilege to be queer, because you've been given cause to question the norms that govern identity in a way heterosexual, cisgender individuals may not have. Repressive gender culture might cause material harm to people who fall closer to the queer part of the continuum, but those boundaries limit everybody by disallowing the individual to explore the depth, breadth, and scope of their humanity.

"If you look at women, the self esteem of lesbian women tends to be higher than that of straight women," Savin-Williams explains. "Maybe they feel like they have more freedom [to be who they really are]. Granted, society may not always like it, but it is your own authentic self."

source

.​
and your question or point of discussion?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The Vice article linked to in the OP does not cite the study or studies that Savin-Williams claims to have done on men to determine that there are no straight men. All the article does is quote Savin-Williams referring to his study or studies. Therefore, I find the article a poor basis for concluding there's much evidence that there are no straight men -- especially given the poor quality of science reporting in this country.

As for the study that is actually cited in the article -- that one turns out to be a study focused on female sexuality. It basically found that lesbian women are a bit more exclusive in which sex they respond to sexually than are straight women. That is, lesbian women tend to respond sexually only to other women, while straight women tend to respond sexually both to men and (to a lesser extent) other women. The lesbian response pattern is likened to that of straight men -- straight men tend to respond sexually only to women.

You can find the full study here. It has not been often cited by other scientists, which could be a sign they don't regard it very highly.

There are several studies -- dating back at least twenty or more years -- to the effect that women's sexuality is more complex than men's. So far as I know, most of those studies have found that straight women tend to be "mostly straight", straight men tend to more strictly straight.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
and your question or point of discussion?
You mean you need an assignment before you're able to talk about the information?.................Okay. How about:

Do you think such information will have an effect on our deeply held cultural beliefs about sexuality? For example, that the notion of a "real man" will eventually fade away? Why or why not?
Or

Do you think the recognition of a continuum of sexuality rather than sexual end points with several sexual "anomalies" between them by which one can pigeon-hole sexuality, will have an effect on how these "anomalies" are regarded?

.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Sexual orientation is a social construct in the first place. Humans tend to be sexual opportunists with their behavior heavily influenced by culture and environment. Just look at ancient Greece and Rome where male bisexuality was the expected norm. I would think that those existing at the extremes of sexual orientation in terms of arousal are very rare, if they really exist at all (who knows). As a bisexual, men being on the down low or messing around with other men if they're discrete and the mood is right is just a fact of life and incredibly common. I see it all the time.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Isn't that basically what Kinsey said back in the '50s? No one is 100% anything, just the fluidity varies?

What most people overlook in reporting Kinsey on the matter is that Kinsey was speculating. He never -- so far as I know -- did any actual experiments to support his "scale". It was pure speculative hypothesis mostly based on his "discovery" of bi-sexual men.

However, there might be some support for it from other researchers by now. I myself don't know. I've never seen any experimental support -- but then, I've never seen Paris, either. On the other hand, all the experimental studies I've seen indicate that straight men tend to be strictly straight -- especially when compared to straight women, who only tend to be "mostly straight", as they call it.

In the article, Savin-Williams vaguely refers to some study or study he's done on straight men that he thinks suggests straight men might be like women in being "mostly straight" rather than "strictly straight". But his method was to rely on pupil dilation -- the studies I've seen used more precise methods than that to arrive at their conclusion that straight men tend to be strictly straight.

Who really knows though?
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Seems a little defensive, frankly. Just because no guy has particularly interested you yet doesn't mean none will in future.

I live a happy life with my female finceè
and one other thing i do think homoseual intercourse is a wrong action to do (i dont condem gay people) but why would i even think of being interested in a male?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Huh? why would you say something like that?
Because as the article points out
"There are aspects [of male sexuality] along a continuum, just as we have always recognized with women. Men have gotten so much cultural crap put on them that even if a man does have some sexual attraction to guys, they would never say it."​

and you may be one of those guys who would never say so even if you do have some sexual attraction to guys because you've been simply fooling yourself, . . . . . . perhaps. ;)

.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Do you think such information will have an effect on our deeply held cultural beliefs about sexuality? For example, that the notion of a "real man" will eventually fade away? Why or why not?

Not much of an effect. People tend not to change their deeply held views that easily. What I think will have a much, much larger impact on the "real man" culture is changing social norms in general. There seems to be a liberalizing trend in the West that has been going on for a few centuries now. That strikes me as a more powerful determinant here than a few scientific studies. Plus, "real men" culture is under subtle attack by the growing economic and financial independence of women.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Because as the article points out
"There are aspects [of male sexuality] along a continuum, just as we have always recognized with women. Men have gotten so much cultural crap put on them that even if a man does have some sexual attraction to guys, they would never say it."​

and you may be one of those guys who would never say so even if you do have some sexual attraction to guys because you've been simply fooling yourself, . . . . . . perhaps. ;)

.

Lol no i do not fooling my self. i know my self enough to know that the only reaction to sexual situation is my own fianceè who can make me react to. No other human person man or woman can arouse me. So no i do not look at guys or other woman for that matter.

as a Buddhist i follow the buddhist morally guidelines and the 8 folded path where it is very clearly written how to live a rightroues life
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
I see no reason to think you don't know yourself. But this being RF, you'll find plenty of good folks who think they know your sexuality better than you yourself do, and who are not at all reluctant to tell you so.

No problem for me if they think they know me better then i do my self :)
 

beenherebeforeagain

Rogue Animist
Premium Member
You mean you need an assignment before you're able to talk about the information?
No, I mean that as the original poster in a thread, posting links and quoted texts is not sufficient as I understand the rules of RF. Most of the time, you DO ask a question or do something else to elicit comments. An article by itself? Not so much.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
No problem for me if they think they know me better then i do my self :)

As for myself, the only people's sexualities that I know better than they know themselves are the world's women. They all want me -- all of them -- even though they all say they don't -- all of them.
 
Top