Straight men and femininity

[Heyo]

Well, we're discussing humans here, not other animals. Why does it need to be compared to other animals? Even so, we still demonstrate many or most of the same sex differences that you find in other apes, both in terms of physical differences and behavioral/psychological differences.

We are discussing your objection to my statement that sexual dimorphism is weak in humans.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If you have nothing to compare it to, how can you say that an attribute is high or low?

Such a comparison really does no good. Humans are still sexually dymorphic enough to make a big difference in body and mind. If it weren't so I don't believe something like gender dysphoria could exist and I don't think anyone would be transgender if we were close enough that it's not much of a biggie.
And if we do bring in other primates, just look at the tremendous differences between humans and chimpanzees despite the reality our DNA is hardly any different.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

We are discussing your objection to my statement that sexual dimorphism is weak in humans.

I last heard that from a cis-man who couldn't understand why it is problematic and unfair for transwomen who went through a male puberty to compete against ciswomen in sports, even saying the ciswomen can just work harder. That's it hideously tone deaf and cruel.
The dimorphism may look little on paper, but just look at a man and a woman and tell me it's weak.
And looking at stuff on paper, this is how years ago a boneheaded researcher concluded eating a chocolate chip cookie is just as addictive as crack cocaine because the brain chemicals involved and the amounts are very similar. But calling this researcher a bonehead is probably too generous because a cookie and crack are just not comparable in such a way.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Many times, I'm surprised males and females are even the same species,

Now that my nephews are mostly all grown up (the youngest is 16), seeing how they are I am starting to get a light shed into the question of why so many people asked if I was gay or mentioned I just seem different, even when I was at my worst with denial and a not entirely convincing performance of hyper masculinity.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

I reckon it takes a strong man to go on stage in drag and act feminine.
To do so in the street is mind blowing.

Far from weak.

 

[Heyo]

I last heard that from a cis-man who couldn't understand why it is problematic and unfair for transwomen who went through a male puberty to compete against ciswomen in sports, even saying the ciswomen can just work harder. That's it hideously tone deaf and cruel.

I last heard it from a primatologist when she described how sexual dimorphism evolved in different species, why it is strong in some species and weak in others.

Such a comparison really does no good. Humans are still sexually dymorphic enough to make a big difference in body and mind. If it weren't so I don't believe something like gender dysphoria could exist and I don't think anyone would be transgender if we were close enough that it's not much of a biggie.

The weakness in dimorphism only makes it possible to transition. The similarity of male and female humans allows to disguise as one another. Try that as an anglerfish when the size difference is 1 to 1000.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The similarity of male and female humans allows to disguise as one another.

Often times not well. FtMs often look like prepubescent boys and MtFs rarely blend in well.
Take the clothes off and the differences are even more apparent. Shoulders, hips, hands, feet, chest, these bones make it so it's not as easy as just putting on the clothes of the opposite sex. Women will still tend to look like women and men and will still tend to look like men.

 

[Heyo]

Often times not well. FtMs often look like prepubescent boys and MtFs rarely blend in well.
Take the clothes off and the differences are even more apparent. Shoulders, hips, hands, feet, chest, these bones make it so it's not as easy as just putting on the clothes of the opposite sex. Women will still tend to look like women and men and will still tend to look like men.

... to the careful observer. Most people are easily fooled because they haven't learned to look at the primary attributes. Hip-shoulder ratio seldom lies.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

... to the careful observer. Most people are easily fooled because they haven't learned to look at the primary attributes. Hip-shoulder ratio seldom lies.

Your kind of making my point. Clothes often aren't enough.

 

[Heyo]

Your kind of making my point.

Because you have a point there.

Clothes often aren't enough.

But frequently they are. I don't deny that sexual dimorphism exists in humans. But try to dress up a silverback as a female gorilla and you will find that it is less possible than with humans.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But frequently they are.

They frequently aren't, especially for MtFs.

But try to dress up a silverback as a female gorilla and you will find that it is less possible than with humans.

So? It's still not that common or typical for a male to look female while wearing women's clothing.

 

[Terrywoodenpic]

They frequently aren't, especially for MtFs.

So? It's still not that common or typical for a male to look female while wearing women's clothing.

However some like to do it anyway.

 

[Estro Felino]

Given that the thread is heterosexual men, I think that we cannot dictate how straight men should behave.

Because us straight women have completely different tastes, as for men (and that is a relief, otherwise we women would fight over the same men 24/7).
In other words, I do like men like Sean Astin. Because he is sweet, chubby, funny, etc..etc...
He is really my type. And if I think of my ex partners, they almost all looked like him. So I am very ordinary.

I don't like hyper-masculine, muscular guys like Brad Pitt. And yet Brad Pitt is loved by most women.

So I think the male universe is so diverse...that everyone can choose.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't like hyper-masculine, muscular guys like Brad Pitt. And yet Brad Pitt is loved by most women.

Since when is Brad Pitt hyper-masculine and muscular? I always considered him a baby faced pretty boy. He's even started wearing skirts (not kilts).

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Since when is Brad Pitt hyper-masculine and muscular? I always considered him a baby faced pretty boy. He's even started wearing skirts (not kilts).

For an hour and a half in Fight Club?

 

[Estro Felino]

For an hour and a half in Fight Club?

Exactly... I am not saying he is not very cute...He is. He really is and is liked by the 90% of straight women, I guess. But there is no chemistry.

So...I definitely prefer Astin...or Adam Sandler...or Michael Bublé

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

For an hour and a half in Fight Club?

Must be.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Exactly... I am not saying he is not very cute...He is. He really is and is liked by the 90% of straight women, I guess. But there is no chemistry.

So...I definitely prefer Astin...or Adam Sandler...or Michael Bublé

He's not very masculine though. He's a pretty boy, I think everyone can agree on that, but one of his lines in Fight Club basically ripped on his real life self for being a pretty faced sex symbol who's great for consumerism while wrecking authentic selves like a Calvin Klien advertisement.

 

[Estro Felino]

He's not very masculine though. He's a pretty boy, I think everyone can agree on that, but one of his lines in Fight Club basically ripped on his real life self for being a pretty faced sex symbol who's great for consumerism while wrecking authentic selves like a Calvin Klien advertisement.

I think the OP should have provided the thread with examples. Because the notion of masculinity is very vague.

 

[Erebus]

Why don't straight men act more feminine?

I can only speak for myself here but I just don't like a lot of stereotypically feminine things. That's become more pronounced as I've gotten older as I was a more open to looking or acting feminine in my teens. I think that over time you become more honest with yourself about who you are and what you like. Turns out I'm somebody who genuinely would rather have a beer than a cosmopolitan

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against guys who like more feminine things. Each to their own.