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Still seeking......

Almost forgot!

I recommend meditation for anyone seeking "answers" - it has helped me in my journey from Violent rage to genuine compassion - but i still need near-constant reminders :)

All the best!
This is my second attempt at replying to you....not sure what happened to my first!
I'll certainly have a look at the book you mention. I've dabbled with meditation in the past but never found able to really connect with it.
At the heart of my post was the disappointment at not being able to find out more about RC ( the constraints of my Divorce etc). I know I can, and indeed I am, still doing so but not being accepted by the RC church has hit me harder than I ever imagined. I suppose a post elsewhere asking for general advice re annulments is needed to further that goal but two dioceses in England gave me little hope without trailing things through an ecclesiastical tribunal. Along the way I was told that there were priests who would welcome me into the faith, start me on the RCIA route arguing that what happened before my interest in the RC church was irrelevant. Unfortunately, none are in my area! Why RC? Well, it seems to fit together to a point. I like the Mass, it's trappings, the Eucharist, the songs etcI like the way the priests draw things together ( I watch services online as well as attending Liverpool Cathedral) without ever feeling preached at.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
using the Bible in the literal sense that you have, actually leads to more questions than answers hence my determination not to look at much of it as literal ( as explained in the OP). Thanks again.

I had all those questions too....but the Bible answered all of them. It is God's word after all, so it should. The Bible is usually pretty clear on what is to be taken literally and what is used figuratively.

Sometimes we are so busy looking for a religion that suits us, we forget about searching for what pleases God.

All the best on your journey...
 
I had all those questions too....but the Bible answered all of them. It is God's word after all, so it should. The Bible is usually pretty clear on what is to be taken literally and what is used figuratively.

Sometimes we are so busy looking for a religion that suits us, we forget about searching for what pleases God.

All the best on your journey...
Thanks Deeje.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Having been away from faith for over 50 years, I set out to discover what, if any, relationship I could find with God.
Having been christened and confirmed into Anglicanism, that was my first point of call. No luck, too many divisions. I was then drawn to Roman Catholicism and that seemed to fit for me. I wanted to start an RCIA course but found that there were too many obstacles surrounding my divorce and remarriage. I was very despondent about that and looked at all manner of other ways to find a faith. Alas, nothing would satisfy my all too enquiring mind! Catholicism still intrigues me but I cannot go through the hoops regarding my former marriage.
I suppose I can sum my position up like this. I believe that much of Genesis is a variation on ancient stories of earlier civilizations and that looking at literal interpretations in the Bible is not for me. Similarly, much of the supernatural stuff re miracles of Jesus leaves me aghast with incredulity. Far better, for me, to see the meanings in them and the parables and see Jesus as a sort of mystical preacher rather than a divine figure although I really don't know. Similarly, the central part of the Christian story, the resurrection, seems to make more sense as a metaphor rather than an historic event. Likewise, the 4th century construct of original sin and the Trinitarian controversies also cause me a deep state of confusion.
As I'm writing this I'm beginning to think that maybe such a thing as an agnostic Christian really does exist.
Please comment but do be gentle, I'm not slagging anyone off, I remain open minded notwithstanding some of the above.
I hope this is posted in the correct category too.
Kevin
Hi Kevin

Have you looked into Unitarianism?

They have churches all over the UK

Before I became a Christian I was a Unitarian (although Unitarianism developed out of Christianity and has something of a Christian flavour)

Check this out: Unitarianism explained | Unitarians
 
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Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Hello Eddi, Thanks for the reply. Yes, I've had a look at Unitarianism but for me, it all seems a bit too loose and in modern parlance, too inclusive.
You're welcome :)

Have you looked into some of the more protestant churches?

Methodist?
Baptist?
United Reformed?

Also, have you seen if there is a non-denominational church near you? You'll be able to find one near you on Google
 
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You're welcome :)

Have you looked into some of the more protestant churches?

Methodist?
Baptist?
United Reformed?

Also, have you seen if there is a non-denominational church near you? You'll be able to find one near you on Google
Yes, I've scoured everything! My wife converted from RC to Baptist, my grandmother was Methodist and I've looked in some detail at each. I keep coming back to my desire to pursue RC or Anglo-Catholicism but, at present, keep encountering barriers/doubts, either made by me, or in the case of RC, by them re marriage/divorce.
 

Eddi

Agnostic
Premium Member
Yes, I've scoured everything! My wife converted from RC to Baptist, my grandmother was Methodist and I've looked in some detail at each. I keep coming back to my desire to pursue RC or Anglo-Catholicism but, at present, keep encountering barriers/doubts, either made by me, or in the case of RC, by them re marriage/divorce.
Perhaps it may help if you think of your search as a search for a congregation to join rather than as a search for a denomination? I've found that the character of a church is determined both by the people who happen to make up the congregation as well as by whatever denomination it's a part of. Just a thought...

Anyway, I hope you find somewhere to go, and good luck! :)
 
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IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Having been away from faith for over 50 years, I set out to discover what, if any, relationship I could find with God.
Having been christened and confirmed into Anglicanism, that was my first point of call. No luck, too many divisions. I was then drawn to Roman Catholicism and that seemed to fit for me. I wanted to start an RCIA course but found that there were too many obstacles surrounding my divorce and remarriage. I was very despondent about that and looked at all manner of other ways to find a faith. Alas, nothing would satisfy my all too enquiring mind! Catholicism still intrigues me but I cannot go through the hoops regarding my former marriage.
I suppose I can sum my position up like this. I believe that much of Genesis is a variation on ancient stories of earlier civilizations and that looking at literal interpretations in the Bible is not for me. Similarly, much of the supernatural stuff re miracles of Jesus leaves me aghast with incredulity. Far better, for me, to see the meanings in them and the parables and see Jesus as a sort of mystical preacher rather than a divine figure although I really don't know. Similarly, the central part of the Christian story, the resurrection, seems to make more sense as a metaphor rather than an historic event. Likewise, the 4th century construct of original sin and the Trinitarian controversies also cause me a deep state of confusion.
As I'm writing this I'm beginning to think that maybe such a thing as an agnostic Christian really does exist.
Please comment but do be gentle, I'm not slagging anyone off, I remain open minded notwithstanding some of the above.
I hope this is posted in the correct category too.
Kevin

So you aren't Christian anymore. It's okay, really. Many people aren't Christian.

Nothing wrong with simply being an ethical monotheist. Is it just the lack of a faith community that is challenging to you?

No one needs to be a Jew, but on the other hand, there is nothing to stop you from becoming one either. Have you looked into this possibility?
 
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So you aren't Christian anymore. It's okay, really. Many people aren't Christian.

Nothing wrong with simply being an ethical monotheist. Is it just the lack of a faith community that is challenging to you?

No one needs to be a Jew, but on the other hand, there is nothing to stop you from becoming one either. Have you looked into this possibility?
I started this search over 2 years ago and I'm more confused than when I started!
I have more questions about the stuff in the OT and even more about the NT than when I started. In a nutshell, Christianity seems to centre on the resurrection which, for me, is deeply lacking in evidence. I could be persuaded of its symbolism but that seems only applicable in the more "progressive" versions of Christianity. I keep throwing in the towel but then keep being pulled back. I'm really looking to make sense of who we are and why we are here and ultimately where we will end up. I think it's the peace and joy that I find in so many Christians that makes me feel that there is something but I cannot reconcile those supernatural events throughout the Bible with the reality of life. Philosophically and/or theologically, clever people can use various forms of words to reconcile things but I'm afraid my brain does not function that way.
Initial responses to my post ( very brief one liners ) suggested I might look beyond mere Christianity and I think that may be a fruitful position to take. That leads into your point about Judaism. I have read a little about it but find it hard to see where I should begin. Orthodox, seems impossible and Reform well, that looks just like the progressive stuff that I have no truck with. The middle way perhaps but there is not much near me to get info on and it would be looking deeply at the OT and it's so much of that that gives me so much trouble. One nagging thought is that given that Christianity arose alongside Judaism and eventually expanded so dramatically, why then did and indeed, do Jews not regard Jesus as the Son of God? Why do they deny the resurrection? Surely their historical accounts are at least as valid as those of Christianity?
Final point, I'm now looking at " finding God without religion" my initial research leaves me with a somewhat hollow, cold feeling. As I said, I think I will only be satisfied when I find that warmth inside and that contentment that others have. I never expected this to be easy and it certainly isn't but, my search continues!
 
I started this search over 2 years ago and I'm more confused than when I started!
I have more questions about the stuff in the OT and even more about the NT than when I started. In a nutshell, Christianity seems to centre on the resurrection which, for me, is deeply lacking in evidence. I could be persuaded of its symbolism but that seems only applicable in the more "progressive" versions of Christianity. I keep throwing in the towel but then keep being pulled back. I'm really looking to make sense of who we are and why we are here and ultimately where we will end up. I think it's the peace and joy that I find in so many Christians that makes me feel that there is something but I cannot reconcile those supernatural events throughout the Bible with the reality of life. Philosophically and/or theologically, clever people can use various forms of words to reconcile things but I'm afraid my brain does not function that way.
Initial responses to my post ( very brief one liners ) suggested I might look beyond mere Christianity and I think that may be a fruitful position to take. That leads into your point about Judaism. I have read a little about it but find it hard to see where I should begin. Orthodox, seems impossible and Reform well, that looks just like the progressive stuff that I have no truck with. The middle way perhaps but there is not much near me to get info on and it would be looking deeply at the OT and it's so much of that that gives me so much trouble. One nagging thought is that given that Christianity arose alongside Judaism and eventually expanded so dramatically, why then did and indeed, do Jews not regard Jesus as the Son of God? Why do they deny the resurrection? Surely their historical accounts are at least as valid as those of Christianity?
Final point, I'm now looking at " finding God without religion" my initial research leaves me with a somewhat hollow, cold feeling. As I said, I think I will only be satisfied when I find that warmth inside and that contentment that others have. I never expected this to be easy and it certainly isn't but, my search continues!
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I think it's because I find the settings in the churches/cathedrals peaceful, I like the ceremonial/liturgical side of things if not over-cooked. It's great that you have found what you are looking for. I'm not entirely sure that I've interpreted the scriptures correctly and thus, I remain open to suggestion. I admit that some days it seems like an unnecessary struggle but I keep learning.
It sounds like you're not particularly looking to believe but looking for what comes with believing - a community, some cool culture stuff, etc. Have you considered just being a non-believer in whatever sort of religious community draws you the most, regardless if you can wrap your mind around their scriptures/theology or not?
 
It sounds like you're not particularly looking to believe but looking for what comes with believing - a community, some cool culture stuff, etc. Have you considered just being a non-believer in whatever sort of religious community draws you the most, regardless if you can wrap your mind around their scriptures/theology or not?
I can see that it might appear that way but that isn't the case. I'm not too bothered on being part of a community in the sense that it's a group action/activity thing. I like the Church as described because, with the RC one in particular, I can go in anytime, on my own ( I'm not the gregarious type) sit quietly or go to the Mass and just sit away from the main body and get lost in what's going on. So no, not looking for anything cool, and certainly not looking for any cool cultural stuff of the progressive modern variety.
 

Harel13

Am Yisrael Chai
Staff member
Premium Member
I can see that it might appear that way but that isn't the case. I'm not too bothered on being part of a community in the sense that it's a group action/activity thing. I like the Church as described because, with the RC one in particular, I can go in anytime, on my own ( I'm not the gregarious type) sit quietly or go to the Mass and just sit away from the main body and get lost in what's going on. So no, not looking for anything cool, and certainly not looking for any cool cultural stuff of the progressive modern variety.
No, of course not. I meant 'cool' subjectively, as in any sort of religion-related customs that interest you personally.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I started this search over 2 years ago and I'm more confused than when I started!
I have more questions about the stuff in the OT and even more about the NT than when I started. In a nutshell, Christianity seems to centre on the resurrection which, for me, is deeply lacking in evidence. I could be persuaded of its symbolism but that seems only applicable in the more "progressive" versions of Christianity. I keep throwing in the towel but then keep being pulled back. I'm really looking to make sense of who we are and why we are here and ultimately where we will end up. I think it's the peace and joy that I find in so many Christians that makes me feel that there is something but I cannot reconcile those supernatural events throughout the Bible with the reality of life. Philosophically and/or theologically, clever people can use various forms of words to reconcile things but I'm afraid my brain does not function that way.
Initial responses to my post ( very brief one liners ) suggested I might look beyond mere Christianity and I think that may be a fruitful position to take. That leads into your point about Judaism. I have read a little about it but find it hard to see where I should begin. Orthodox, seems impossible and Reform well, that looks just like the progressive stuff that I have no truck with. The middle way perhaps but there is not much near me to get info on and it would be looking deeply at the OT and it's so much of that that gives me so much trouble. One nagging thought is that given that Christianity arose alongside Judaism and eventually expanded so dramatically, why then did and indeed, do Jews not regard Jesus as the Son of God? Why do they deny the resurrection? Surely their historical accounts are at least as valid as those of Christianity?
Final point, I'm now looking at " finding God without religion" my initial research leaves me with a somewhat hollow, cold feeling. As I said, I think I will only be satisfied when I find that warmth inside and that contentment that others have. I never expected this to be easy and it certainly isn't but, my search continues!
Yes, Orthodoxy is a hard, hard road, and although I find it a wonderful way, it is not for everyone. I understand your reluctance about the Reform as well, though I find a lot of positive stuff there as well. I suppose I just look for the good in all the denominations -- being unattached to any particular branch, I kind of feel at home wherever I go. But if you are pickier, that's okay too.

So there are no conservative synagogues in your neck of the woods? What a shame.

Since you have asked questions, I am more than willing to answer.

Jews have no problem with Jesus being a son of God -- only with such a title being unique. After all, David is described as a son of God. All Israel is God's "first born son." But the Christian scriptures describe Jesus as God's ONLY son, and what's more they describe him as a BEGOTTEN son of God. We do take issue with that. Why? Because God having babies is a pagan idea.

This idea entered the church later in history, when Gentiles entered the church, bringing their Hellenism and Egyptian ways with them. In Greek culture, you had the gods having sex and giving birth to other gods and demi-gods all the time. Things like virgin births and resurrections were not unusual in pagan mythology. In Gentile minds, if Jesus was exalted, it was simply natural to think of him as a deity, and for this kind of mythology to be attached. To some extent, Hellenistic Jews such as Paul came under this sway as well.

These things were never beliefs of the Jews from Judea. Christianity began as a Jewish sect, which means that the only belief they had about Jesus was that he was the messiah. It was still a heretical belief, because it required heretical understandings of the Tanakh, and the view that the messiah wouldn't fulfill all the prophecies. For this reason the Christians were eventually kicked out of the synagogues. That combined with the fact that the majority of them were soon Gentile, and you had a new religion.

Other Christian bread and butter theologies such as the Trinity came hundreds of years later.
 
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