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Still... He Was Brave

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
So are you really arguing that anyone with a false belief can't be brave?

Assuming that Mike Hughes did have a false belief. His actual position was that he didn't really know whether the Earth was flat or spherical, that he didn't want to just blindly accept authority, so he wanted to find out for himself. It's harder to argue with that.

(Not unlike increasingly common atheist rhetoric when they insist that they aren't claiming that god doesn't exist, but only that they don't believe that 'he' does. Hence they supposedly have no burden of proof.)

And I'd also say that the distinction between 'brave' and 'foolhardy' isn't always clear and distinct.

Free solo climbing - Wikipedia


And I would say that free solo climbing, especially given the death rate, is foolhardy, not brave.

The distinction between bravery and foolhardiness was a common point of classical education. The similarities between the two were well known and acknowledged.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
And I would say that free solo climbing, especially given the death rate, is foolhardy, not brave.

The distinction between bravery and foolhardiness was a common point of classical education. The similarities between the two were well known and acknowledged.

I quite agree. I can understand why people do free-climbing - it's the ultimate test of their faith in their ability after all - but it's still foolhardy.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
I am too old to be interested in Marvel comics. Actually, I am against belief in all comic heroes, and God is one. But what he was attempting was perhaps in the knowledge of his community. And police generally are aware of what is happening in their region.He was absolutely foolish. He could have consulted people working in the field. Or he could even have checked things on internet. I am sure that would have convinced him of his foolishness.

IMO, Icarus was better. At least, there was nobody at that time to advice him that his contraption would not work, and the wind-pressure will make his arms ineffective.
You do not know the man's mental state.
The fact is, he used a method, which he believed might work... and thus satisfy his experience.
The fact is, he was willing to carry out his experiment... perhaps knowing the cost.
The first man to test a rocket may not have survived. However, it was a stepping stone for others.
Bravery may look stupid at times, but it takes a brave soul to step up to the task.
I wonder how many people think soldiers are stupid.
Why go to war? To kill oneself? Or pray one survives?
Maybe soldiers should ask, someone what it feels like to get hit by tank artillery.

By the way, I don't know what Mike knew, or didn't know.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
I'm not convinced that "Mad" Mike really believed that the Earth is flat. It was just a hook that he used to get the press to pay attention to him. (They love trashing perceived inferiors.) And I think that he loved poking his finger in the eye of established mainstream opinion. He was something of a rebel.

He was ultimately an adventurer, and this was his adventure.



He most definitely did, and said so repeatedly. He made his living as a professional daredevil, a dying breed in our increasingly risk-averse age.

I don't really see much difference between what he was doing and free-climbing sheer rock faces in Yosemite, climbing Mt. Everest, base-jumping, or flying little SpaceshipOne up above the Karman line.

People often attempt dangerous things that might get them killed. And many other people who wouldn't do those things themselves find the idea that there are people who will to be kind of inspiring. It's why adventure novels exist as a genre.
I don't know.
If he was just another character who enjoyed extreme thrills, then he obviously didn't value his life, That is the case with many thrill seekers, and those who just live for the moment... like Dan Wheldon, and the rest of 'em, imo.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
it isn't having doubts that made him stupid and foolhardy.

it was thinking this was a way (let alone the best way) to resolve those doubts that made him stupid.
Who gets to determine how you resolve your doubts, you or someone else?
I would think you. Am I right?
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
So are you really arguing that anyone with a false belief can't be brave?

Assuming that Mike Hughes did have a false belief. His actual position was that he didn't really know whether the Earth was flat or spherical, that he didn't want to just blindly accept authority, so he wanted to find out for himself. It's harder to argue with that.

(Not unlike increasingly common atheist rhetoric when they insist that they aren't claiming that god doesn't exist, but only that they don't believe that 'he' does. Hence they supposedly have no burden of proof.)

We're also assuming that his rocket flights were motivated by 'flat earth' ideas. I doubt very much whether they were. Mike was a professional daredevil for many years before the flat earth thing ever came up. He didn't do it to prove anything, he did it for the thrill. Some of his associates say that he latched on to the flat earth thing in hopes of generating interest, particularly from the media.

'Mad Mike' Hughes Was a Daredevil First, Flat Earther Second

And I'd also say that the distinction between 'brave' and 'foolhardy' isn't always clear and distinct.

Free solo climbing - Wikipedia
Thank you for that.
 

epronovost

Well-Known Member
Don't get upset when others think your way is stupid then.
We all have a right to our opinions.

But you don't have the right to your own facts. The shape of the Earth isn't a question of opinion neither is the quality and safeness of a home made rocket. These are questions of fact.
 

nPeace

Veteran Member
But you don't have the right to your own facts. The shape of the Earth isn't a question of opinion neither is the quality and safeness of a home made rocket. These are questions of fact.
I'm talking about a person resolving doubts / skepticism they have. What are you talking about?
 

Yazata

Active Member
I don't know.
If he was just another character who enjoyed extreme thrills, then he obviously didn't value his life

Sometimes it's people who sit at home doing nothing that aren't valuing life. Sometimes we don't really start to value our lives until they they are taken to the edge, so to speak. From the perspective of being in extremis.

That is the case with many thrill seekers, and those who just live for the moment... like Dan Wheldon, and the rest of 'em, imo.

Arguably, life is nothing but a succession of moments. Always "right here, right now". If we don't get the most out of our moments, if we don't live them to the fullest, then perhaps we miss out on life.

Maybe that's something that "Mad" Mike Hughes understood that many other people don't. I most emphatically don't want to dismiss it as stupid.
 
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nPeace

Veteran Member
Sometimes it's people who sit at home doing nothing that aren't valuing life. Sometimes we don't really start to value our lives until they they are taken to the edge, so to speak. From the perspective of being in extremis.



Arguably, life is nothing but a succession of moments. Always "right here, right now". If we don't get the most out of our moments, if we don't live them to the fullest, then perhaps we miss out on life.

Maybe that's something that "Mad" Mike Hughes understood that many other people don't. I most emphatically don't want to dismiss it as stupid.
From my experience...

Some people are ignorant - most are. I would say 75% or more (that's my opinion), and therefore the decisions some make in life, are based on anything but accurate knowledge. Life becomes a matter of feeling one's way through.
Thrill seeking adds some excitement to their meaningless everyday routine.

Then there are the not so ignorant who just feel they are their own god, who live their life how they please, and no one tells them what to do, or how to live. In other words, there are no rules - The Aleister Crowley motto.
This is quickly becoming the norm in societies... if it's not there already.
To them, life could end tomorrow... So what.

This is because most of mankind do not know, and have not found the real purpose and meaning in life.
Does life have a purpose? How can we find it?
I think if we can get accurate answers to these questions, our lives would have a more positive direction.

I am sure a lot of cops wish they could spend more time with their son, or daughter, than have to put on a uniform, and holster a weapon, and risk their life daily. However, some feel that gives their life meaning... to "Go get the bad guys! Protect society!". It's a sense of duty, but what else is there, if one does not see the real purpose, and meaning to life.

If Mike knew it, he wouldn't have died in a rocket.
 
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