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Stigmatizing

Discussion in 'COVID-19' started by InChrist, Jan 5, 2022.

  1. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    I didn't ask them.
     
  2. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    Read my post again. I didn't say that, its what some people I have talked to said.
     
  3. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    But you do see my point, right?

    If someone says "the mortality rate isn't high enough for me to get a vaccine," then – if they aren't full of crap – they have an idea of what the mortality rate would be where they would get the vaccine.

    If someone says "the vaccine hasn't been tested enough to know it's safe," then – if they aren't full of crap – they have an idea of how much testing would make them feel like they would feel safe.

    If someone says "the vaccine has too many side effects," then – if they aren't full of crap – they have an idea of a side effect rate that they would consider acceptable.

    It's not even a matter of their opinion being reasonable or informed; it's a matter of their opinion being honest and internally consistent.
     
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  4. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    @TagliatelliMonster I noticed you did not respond to my post. Any reason why?
    Will you be responding to it. I really would like to hear your response.
    Also, I am interested in your educating us on this. Can the virus mutate and thus become a new variant in fully vaccinated people, and thus put others at risk, including the unvaccinated.
    I am not interested in the far more likelys and the figure comparisons. Is that okay with you?

    Hence, how is it that the unvaccinated are prolonging the pandemic? ...More precisely, the ignorant selfish unvaccinated?
    Something else I am interested in that was just said, but I'm interested in hearing you on this first.
     
  5. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Well, it shouldn't be okay.

    The *whole point* is to *reduce* risk. There is no way to *eliminate* it. So those 'more likelys' and 'figure comparisons' are the *whole point*.
     
  6. We Never Know

    We Never Know Well-Known Member

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    When I talked to people about the vaccine I listen to what they say without arguing with them, whether I agree or disagree.
    Some say they don't trust it, some say there isnt enough data, some say the survival rate is almost 99% , etc.

    Same as I don't argue with people about religion. They have their thoughts and I'm not going to try to change them.
     
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  7. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    So if hospitals are overburdened why do they dismiss nurses and other staff who have faithfully worked since the beginning and want to continue to work, but don’t want the vaccine?
     
  8. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    Because the governmental agencies who oversee nursing licenses have, so far, not made it a priority to revoke the licenses of anti-vax nurses who willfully put patients at needless risk.

    This really shouldn't be left up to the hospitals. Nurses who refuse - for no good reason - basic measures to help reduce the harm of a pandemic to themselves, their coworkers and their patients are behaving unethically. The behaviour should be a disciplinary matter just like any other ethical breach that puts people at risk.
     
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  9. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    That is *far* less of an issue that nurses and doctors getting burnt out because so many people need emergency treatment and are dying. The psychological impact on the healthcare workers of that is traumatic. It is compounded by the fact that most of these deaths were completely unnecessary if simple preventative measures were taken. Add to that the patients that call the nurses and doctors liars for simply trying to save lives, and the low pay, and you have the current crisis.

    Those who do not want the vaccine are putting their political views above the health of their patients and colleagues. They do not deserve to be in their positions. Fortunately, the number of these is small compared to those that are simply burning out from exhaustion.
     
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  10. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    If putting patients and co-workers at risk is the issue, then why are some hospitals in some states (I.e. Rhode Island and California) allowing or considering allowing Covid positive nurses to come to work?
     
  11. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    I would say it’s just the opposite. Those who have been pushing their political/financial agenda and policies since the beginning; slandering and vilifying scientists or physicians who express different perspectives and prohibiting physicians from preventive measures and early treatment protocols for their Covid patients are the ones responsible for the tremendous amount of NEEDLESS deaths and exhausted medical staff! And how many deaths was Andrew Cuomo alone responsible for by continuing to send Covid positive patients into nursing homes spreading it to patients and staff?!!!
    Nurses or medical personnel who refuse the vaccine see more and know more then you do. Don’t you think after all the experience they’ve had in dealing with Covid they would gladly take the vaccine if they thought it safe and effective to do so? But many have seen vaccine injured patients or deaths. Who are you to presume to judge their personal medical decision or what is injected into their body? Are you going to pay for any injuries they may experience? Vaccine companies have immunity so they don’t.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Subway Stalinist
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    I guess they don't put a high value on patient safety.
     
  13. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    So you have never ever had a vaccine or shot? Really? You never eat food that is bad for you or use products that have harmful chemicals in them?
     
  14. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    When people pretend their religion is against certain actions, you will not be able to reason with them to make smart choices. It's sad. They keep doing things that make people resent them and wonder why.
     
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  15. InChrist

    InChrist Free4ever

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    The last shot I’ve had was over thirty years ago and vaccine over forty-five years. I eat organic, non-GMO food almost all the time. I avoid products with harmful chemicals as much as possible as there are plenty of safer alternatives and certainly don’t have such chemicals injected into my bloodstream.
     
  16. Thirza Fallen

    Thirza Fallen Crazy Cat Lady

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    At least you're trying to be consistent.
     
  17. Terrywoodenpic

    Terrywoodenpic Oldest Heretic

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    Such people are so paranoid and fearful of the vaccine, that otherwise intelligent people. disregard the evidence, and put both themselves and other people at risk.

    They seek out conspiracy theories, unsupported evidence, and any other excuse to avoid being vaccinated.
    no one is forcing them. however they must expect to face some restrictions on their daily lives, and their contacts with other people, in the interests of public safety. This can limit their work choices, and social contacts.

    People that have real medical contra indications to a vaccine, are exempt from them. but may still face restrictions. this is an extremely small number of individuals.

    Everyone going for a vaccination has their medical history checked and any one with contra indications is not given a vaccination, even if they want one.
     
    #77 Terrywoodenpic, Jan 16, 2022 at 5:35 AM
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2022 at 5:40 AM
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  18. TagliatelliMonster

    TagliatelliMonster Veteran Member

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    The word "only" implies that vaccinated people can not catch it from another vaccinated person.
    Which is not true.

    The unvaccinated indeed prolong the pandemic problems and idd are a statistical danger to everyone, if there are enough of them.

    The immune system of an unvaccinated person still has to learn how to respond once infected. So they are sick and infectious for longer. It means the virus gets to reproduce a lot longer then in a vaccinated person (since then the immune system kicks in right away with what it already has learned from the vaccine).

    Meaning:
    - infectious for larger periods of time
    - a LOT more virus particles (so more infectious also, not just longer)
    - more reproduction = more mutations = higher chance of mutants capable of breaking through vaccination

    A combination of these factors means that they will infect a lot more people (including the vaccinated) and will also end up in the hospital a lot more also. Meaning more stress on healthcare systems. Leading to restrictive measures and lockdowns.

    So in short, the unvaccinated infect a lot more people then the vaccinated. And they likely also will be the incubators of new variants.

    Ironically, the omicron variant might be the beginning of the end.

    Apparently it's required...

    See above.

    They are among the 3 to 7% (depending on which vaccine they had) in which the vaccination didn't work very well.


    PS: how do you explain that in countries where the vast majority is vaccinated, the vast majority of the hospitalized, those in ICU and those that die are unvaccinated people?

    Could it perhaps be that being vaccinated lowers your chances severely of needing hospitalization, ICU or worse? And since the social measures and lockdowns are a direct result of stress on hospitals (to prevent health care collapse), wouldn't then by definition mean that unvaccinated people are prolonging pandemic measures?
     
  19. nPeace

    nPeace Well-Known Member

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    I'll get back to you shortly with an answer to your question, along with a scenario. Just have something to do in a few minutes.
     
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