Statues Don't Teach Much History. They More Often Honor Jerks.

[Stevicus]

oooohhhh…...placate the masses

It's worked before.

GIVE the people the right
to be slow
overweight
late for work
uneducated

I didn't realize anyone was advocating for those kinds of rights.

WE ARE NOT HERE FOR OUR PERFORMANCE!
WE ARE HERE FOR OUR ATTENDANCE!

quoting a coworker
who seems privileged
and expects to stay that way

I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the post you're replying to. My only point was that, if someone is upset about some socialist revolutionary government taking over their country, then they should have thought about that before it got to that point. No use whining about "socialism" if you were unwilling to reform your policies while you still had the chance. If you waited until the peasants show up at your doorstep with torches and pitchforks, then you waited too long.

and you blame the cops
maybe some lawyers?
judges?
the American Way?

I think you need to calm down


hehehehehe

Hey, I just call it as I see it. Obviously, you see it another way, and that's that. I'm cool with that, and quite calm, thank you very much.

 

[Revoltingest]

I would not remove the statue in the Lincoln Memorial. His acts warrant that statue. I would not remove the Statue of Liberty.

There are also statues honoring those who gave their lives in war such as the WWII memorial.

But I would not shed a tear if 98% of current ones disappeared.

How about the monuments & statues for the slave owners, Washington & Jefferson?

 

[exchemist]

This^^

Does anyone who is having a problem with the implications and ramifications of removing confederate statues have a problem with this?

I have a problem with you apparently attributing to me words I don't think I have uttered.

Can you explain where you got these words from, that you are quoting as if they are mine?

 

[Yerda]

I have a problem with you apparently attributing to me words I don't think I have uttered.

Can you explain where you got these words from, that you are quoting as if they are mine?

My apologies. I hit the quote button on Sunstone's OP and muddled with my response to your post. It was an accident, I'll change it just now.

 

[exchemist]

I do.
It's sanitizing public spaces.
Remove anything offensive.
Erase history that makes us uncomfortable.
Don't acknowledge an age when statues were erected to such people.

I've stated the option I prefer.
Illuminate what the people thought & did back in the day.
Shine a light on the evil instead of ignoring it.

I didn't say this, by the way, as you may be able to tell if you read my other contributions on this thread. The quote attributed to me seems to have been made up by @Jaiket and put into my mouth. Very odd.

 

[exchemist]

My apologies. I hit the quote button on Sunstone's OP and muddled with my response to your post. It was an accident, I'll change it just now.

Yes please do, if you wouldn't mind. It does rather make a nonsense of what I've been trying to say on the thread up to this point.

 

[Revoltingest]

I didn't say this, by the way, as you may be able to tell if you read my other contributions on this thread. The quote attributed to me seems to have been made up by @Jaiket and put into my mouth. Very odd.

I responded to Jaiket's post.
I didn't think it was about you.

 

[columbus]

Illuminate what the people thought & did back in the day.
Shine a light on the evil instead of ignoring it.

Pretty much this.

I'm not a fan of destruction. I'd much rather see additions and more information.

I'd keep the statue of Lee. But contrapose it with a big statue of Harriet Tubman giving him the stink eye, along with a plaque that better explains the whole situation. Including why the Lee statue was erected and why modern people wanted Tubman commemorated.
Tom

 

[exchemist]

I responded to Jaiket's post.
It wasn't & isn't about you.

Seems it was a typo by @Jaiket which is being corrected. Alles klar.

 

[Thief]

Does Nixon have a statue?
plague reads.....I am not a crook

 

[Revoltingest]

Does Nixon have a statue?
plague reads.....I am not a crook

Yes.

But it's of Pat Nixon.

 

[columbus]

Does Nixon have a statue?
plague reads.....I am not a crook

I don't know how to find it. But there is a funny political cartoon from the late 70s.

It depicts a group of tourists surrounded by the Washington Mall. They're looking down into a deep hole. It's text reads "The Nixon Memorial".

Tom

 

[Yerda]

I do.
It's sanitizing public spaces.
Remove anything offensive.
Erase history that makes us uncomfortable.
Don't acknowledge an age when statues were erected to such people.

I've stated the option I prefer.
Illuminate what the people thought & did back in the day.
Shine a light on the evil instead of ignoring it.

Ok. Ha. I never expected anyone to come out in defense of Hitler and Stalin statues. That'll teach me.

I would suggest that history research and classes are the best place for shining a light on the evil and that removing statues isn't ignoring evil. Having a statue isn't history. It isn't illuminating the mistakes of the past so much as honouring them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Indeed. And every Christian church needs a prominent statue of Satan.

We better put a statue of Putin, Kimmy, and Xi in front of all Trump Tower so he cant forget his BFFs.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It appears that many people see this issue as being solely about whether
the person honored is good or bad. There are suggestions that if there's
an existing statue to a bad historical figure, eg, Jackson, then its existence
is equivalent to erecting a new statue to modern evildoers.

The statues in question originated long ago with a particular message.
That in itself was an historical event, & the statue is an informative
artifact. And that message has been out there & largely accepted for
typically over a century. This says something about the era.
Now it's being challenged, & the question is how to handle the objections.
Erase it...hide it....deny it?
Or add modern interpretations?
The statue could become about dishonor.
Drama makes things interesting, breathing life into history.

A statue to a modern malefactor like Jeffrey Dahmer is very different.
There is no historical message to be re-interpreted. He's just another
serial killer.

Those statues you defend, they were at one point exactly like errecting a statue of Jeffrey Dahmer. But with the rape, necrophilia, murder, amd cannabalism overlooked because he served his country in the military.

 

[Revoltingest]

Ok. Ha. I never expected anyone to come out in defense of Hitler and Stalin statues. That'll teach me.

If I had one, I'd hang Mardi Gras beads around'm.
But "defense" is the wrong word. I see opportunity to
use them to enlighten & to express outrage at them.

I would suggest that history research and classes are the best place for shining a light on the evil and that removing statues isn't ignoring evil. Having a statue isn't history. It isn't illuminating the mistakes of the past so much as honouring them.

History research & classes....that's it....make the knowledge
inaccessible to all but the few bookworms who seek it out.
Suck the life out of history that would.

Have you completely missed my proposals about how to
use the statues to illuminate the history behind them, &
the evils they hath wrought? See post #24.

We are not the Taliban!

 

[Revoltingest]

Those statues you defend....

Is my message entirely lost on fans of the Taliban approach to history?
I don't defend the statues. I say to use them for good...not to erase them.

....they were at one point exactly like errecting a statue of Jeffrey Dahmer. But with the rape, necrophilia, murder, amd cannabalism overlooked because he served his country in the military.

"Exactly like"? Pbbbbttttttt!
This ignores the history of the person, the message of the statue,
& the tumultuous history of interpreting it. That's not there with Dahmer.

The Taliban's way....refusing to see history that offends,
& demanding that all one sees be comforting.
That's not us.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

"Exactly like"? Pbbbbttttttt!
This ignores the history of the person, the message of the statue,
& the tumultuous history of interpreting it. That's not there with Dahmer.

Dahmer was killer. He was also a healer.
Jackson was a killer. He was also strong-arm preserved the Union.
Or, rather, lets use Ted Bundy as an example. Bundy was a heinous killer. Bundy also willingly cooperated with the feds and advanced criminal profiling way far above and beyond what the best shrinks and investors ever wpuld have been able to do on their own without that serial killer insight, and Bundy's profiles did lead to arrests (and thus saved lives).

 

[Stevicus]

I don't know how to find it. But there is a funny political cartoon from the late 70s.

It depicts a group of tourists surrounded by the Washington Mall. They're looking down into a deep hole. It's text reads "The Nixon Memorial".

Tom

 

[Revoltingest]

I thought that was the Martha Washington Monument.