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Featured State of the Dead

Discussion in 'Scriptural Debates' started by Faithofchristian, Mar 12, 2018.

  1. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    The dead being in reference to the Spiritual dead.

    But who are the Spiritual dead ?

    "But Jesus said unto him, Follow me; and let the dead bury their dead"
    Matthew 8:22.

    You really don't believe that dead people are actually burying their dead ?

    The book of John 5:25,28.
    Verse 25--"Verily, verily, I say unto you,
    The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live"

    This will happen twice. first time is
    when people hear Christ Jesus speaking through his word throughout the Bible and they that hear shall live.

    The second time takes place at the coming of Christ Jesus, that when the dead, Spiritual dead, hear the voice of Christ Jesus shall live.
    They that hear will see, that they have been deceived all during their life.
    About Christ Jesus and God the Father.

    Now for John 5:28-29--"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth: they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation"

    The hour that's being spoken of, is that hour in which Christ Jesus returns.

    The grave that's being spoken of, is not an actual grave as you see as a hole in the ground.

    The grave that Christ Jesus is speaking of, is Spiritual, that holds people in Spiritual darkness. Of not knowing the truth of Christ Jesus word.

    The grave has a 3 folded meaning in the Bible.
    One being, where our dead body of flesh and blood are put in the ground.

    The other has a spiritual meaning, which holds people in Spiritual darkness of not knowing or understanding the truth of God's word.

    The other is, the grave represents a prison, where the Spiritual dead are held captive in darkness of being deceived by deception of not knowing the truth of God's word.

    The question is, Who are the Spiritual dead ?

    The dead being the Spiritual dead, are those who disbelieve in God and have no concept about Christ Jesus or God.

    But when Spiritual dead, in their Spiritual darkness hear the voice of Christ Jesus shall live.

    Look let's take for instance those two men that were nailed on crosses beside Christ Jesus, one of them were in condemning Christ Jesus and the other one hearing the voice of Christ Jesus.
    "And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, to day shalt you be with me in paradise"
    The book of Luke 23:39--43.

    Therefore those that hear the voice of Christ Jesus, shalt live and those who turn away of the voice of Christ Jesus are in condemnation. As did the other man on the cross rejected to hear the voice of Christ Jesus.was in condemnation, while the other man, went into paradise with Christ Jesus.
     
    #1 Faithofchristian, Mar 12, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2018
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  2. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    "And to another Jesus said, 'Follow me.' But he replied, 'Lord, let me go first and bury my father.' But Jesus answered him, 'Let the dead bury their dead. But you, go and proclaim the kingdom of God.' Jesus seems to invite transgression of the fourth commandment, which says that we must 'honor our father and mother'.
    Whoever does the will of my Father who is in heaven is my brother, sister, and mother" (Matthew 12:48-50).
    The spiritual family already existed: It was the people of Israel, united by observance of the Torah, that is, the Mosaic law. Jesus reveals a new family in which God is father, and men and women are all brothers and sisters thanks to a common faith in him, the Christ.
    Jesus does not say, 'Whoever loves father or mother more than the Torah is not worthy of the Torah." But,
    "Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me."
    To accept Jesus' teaching is to accept his person.
     
  3. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Interesting, but you draw conclusions from scripture that aren't there in the direct reading of the text. Here is the Bible speaking that becomes problematic for your position. In Genesis 1 God has created Adams body, " then God breathed unto him the breath of life, and he became a living soul". Obviously, from the text, a body and the breath of life must exist for there to be a living soul. Do you contend that the spirit is different from the soul ?
     
  4. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Jesus didn't invite transgression of the fourth Commandment.
    But rather, gave the person by his free will to choose it is more important to serve God or father and mother, Seeing how God is our Father. And seeing how we are to put God first in all things.

    "Jesus said unto him, You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, This is the First and Great commandment"
    Matthew 22:37-38.

    Therefore we are to put God the Father first in all things.
    And yes we are to honour our father and mother, but God the Father of us all, is to come first in all things.
     
  5. pcarl

    pcarl Well-Known Member

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    To place God before all things would have been the traditional belief of the Jews at the time of Jesus. What Jesus does is to place himself in place of the Torah. It is enough to follow Jesus.
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Nope rather the soul and spirit being the same.

    First Adam was not created In Genesis 1.
    Adam wasn't created until Genesis 2:7

    The male and female were created on the 6th day

    As for Adam was created on the day after the 7th day, which could be called the
    8th day.
     
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  7. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity simple man
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    That is taking Genesis out of its context. It is included with the Torah as part of the Pentateuch. There is no introduction saying what it is about. Your assumption that it is about planet Earth is just that. Also you have started with preconceived notions about many things in Genesis such as the word LORD. Therefore you take the book mistakenly literally viewing Earth as a planet created with two people in it, a snake that introduces us to sin and a tree that miraculously grants knowledge. Of course that means you are going to make a lot of additional wrong judgments about any parts of the Bible that reference Genesis, because you will assume that they also consider it to be literal. In fact, that is a huge problem not just for you but for many Christians today. There is a culture gap so wide that a city could fall through it.
     
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  8. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Sigh, so you then have given yourself the authority to read the Scriptures and manipulate them in any manner you think right to reach a conclusion you think that is acceptable to you and you are comfortable with. The gnostics claimed they had this authority as well.

    Lets end this now, a discussion along these lines becomes one of opinions rather than that of fact as measured by the standard of the Bible. Lets part amicably, Peace to you.
     
  9. shmogie

    shmogie Well-Known Member

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    Sorry for referencing the wrong chapter, you knew what I was talking about. I am not sure how the order of the days of creation plays into the immortality of humanity. As I understand your position, humans never really die, they just slip from life in a physical body to life as a spirit, then some, or all, reinhabit a physical body, but all live forever, correct ?
     
  10. Prestor John

    Prestor John Well-Known Member

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    I believe that many, if not all, scriptural references to the "grave" refer to the physical grave.

    Both "hell" and "prison" have been used to describe the place or state-of-being of the spiritually dead who are also physical dead (i.e. before the physical Resurrection).

    Christ's teaching about those in their graves hearing His voice and rising is in reference to the literal physical Resurrection of the dead that will occur at His Second Coming, during His Millennial Reign and before the Final Judgment.
     
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  11. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Nope, when Jesus said in the book of
    John 5:28--"Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice"

    Note that Jesus said ( Marvel not at this)
    Because the grave is not to be take literal, as the grave in the ground.

    But the grave in which Jesus is speaking of is Spiritual and not literal.

    The grave in which Jesus is speaking of is where the spiritual dead are held captive in spiritual darkness. Of not knowing the truth, The grave in which Jesus speaks of represents spiritual darkness.being in darkness of not knowing the truth.
    1 Corinthians 15:55--"O death, where is your sting? O grave, where is your victory?"

    The grave does not hold me captive in prison in spiritual darkness.of not knowing the truth.
     
  12. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    Those who believe life is a destination and not a journey.

    Luke 9:58
    Jesus replied, “Foxes have dens and birds have nests, but the Son of Man has no place to lay his head.”

    the bible doesn't promote anthropolatry. those who practice it are spiritually dead. to hear, or believe, doesn't translate to prostitute to a begotten thing.
     
  13. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Sammasambuddha

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    What is the benefit and optimistic lesson from about people that makes a christian view spiritually dead people?

    What is positive about scripture saying there are spiritually dead people; and, why follow the bible when its peaks of oeople poorly?
     
  14. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Why do you suppose Jesus had no place to lay his head, What is the reason that Jesus is saying this ?

    Those who are spiritually dead, are those people who do not believe in God or Christ Jesus. Then they become spiritually dead.
     
  15. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Look, if a person or people do not believe in God or Christ Jesus, then they are spiritually dead, but yet they are still alive, but still are spiritually dead.
     
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  16. David T

    David T Well-Known Member
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    Christianity is dead central and it is the causality and problem. I believe is dead, I don't believe is dead, I am agnostic is dead. Which dead is correct?

    The cult of literacy is when the text determines the landscape. You Christian have a dead sun a dead sky a dead earth a dead cosmos in perfect alignment to modern dead science. Which dead must I believe? What self deluded b.s. must I embrace God is dead or God is living except for that it's independent of reality independent from the landscape imposing it's intellect upon the landscape. That is all dead spoken by the dead is the dead is dead. Nature alive or extinction you of the dead.
     
  17. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    those who are spiritually dead identify with the body. when the body dies; so does the person. the person who identifies with the personality, is dead.

    flesh gives birth to personality
    spirit gives birth to spirit.


    John 3:6
    Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit.


    Revelation 2:11
    Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches. The one who is victorious will not be hurt at all by the second death.


    John 3:8
    The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit.”


    forms arise and fall, but the Spirit is forever.

    at some point this happens...........

    Daniel 12:2
    Multitudes who sleep in the dust of the earth will awake: some to everlasting life, others to shame and everlasting contempt.
     
  18. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Yes, thats why your spiritually dead yourself
     
  19. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Have any clue or idea what Daniel 12:2 is referring to. You actually believe people are actually sleeping in the dust of the earth.
     
  20. Fool

    Fool ALL in ALL
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    unenlightened persons sleep. you are the light of the world, a city set on a hill.



    For this reason it says, "Awake, sleeper, And arise from the dead, And Christ will shine on you."


    Your dead will live; Their corpses will rise You who lie in the dust, awake and shout for joy, For your dew is as the dew of the dawn, And the earth will give birth to the departed spirits.
     
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