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Star Trek V: The Final Frontier

Discussion in 'General Debates' started by Sirona, Apr 12, 2019.

  1. Sirona

    Sirona Hindu Wannabe

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    This may be a sign that I am really getting old, but ... does anyone remember Star Trek V: The Final Frontier from 1989???

    I've been thinking about the validity of messiah figures lately and the image which in this context keeps popping up in my head annoyingly often is Sybok. He is a Vulcan but he does his own kind of mindmeld, hugging all kinds people and saying: ""Share your pain. Share your pain with me – and gain strength from the sharing", While being hugged, those people apparently experience some catharis and afterwards they follow him fervently, willing to do most anything for him. I always wondered if the "fault" is on him for using his followers for his own purpose, or whether it is on his followers because of their inability to break away from him.

    Similarities with existing messiah figures are not intended but probably unavoidable. Maybe it's nothing but a feeling but Sybok has always been giving me the creeps.
     
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  2. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity What Does the Fox Say?
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    Was it that long ago? :skull:

    Star Trek V clearly took a poke at hard fundamentalist belief -- or thought that it did. This attempt actually did not bridge any gaps. At the time I saw it as a pathetic attempt by atheists to create a strawman argument. "What if" God were a being imprisoned at the center of the galaxy and was trying to escape? The theme was more recently rehashed in a pair of Doctor Who episodes called The Satan Pit -- same story but this God is trapped by a black hole rather than a galactic barrier. I enjoyed the visuals, but there was not a pithy philosophical problem in my opinion. It wasn't like Wrath of Khan or Search for Spock. Also the enemy was lame. Doctor Who's version of Satan was better.
     
  3. beenherebeforeagain

    beenherebeforeagain Rogue Animist
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    I thought ST5 was offering a version of gnosticism...
     
  4. Windwalker

    Windwalker Integralist
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    It's creepy, because it is like so many religious cult leaders, gurus, and whatnot. It's the nature of religious predators with a narcissistic bent. Is it the fault of the followers?

    I think the best way to look at this is that these spiritual seekers are vulnerable in their spiritual naivety. They want to believe. They want to trust. And that is in fact a spiritual positive. It makes them open. It also means they are weak. And conmen, or the narcissistic cult of personality leader, can exploit them.

    I think to answer your question, a quote from Jesus comes to mind I think applies. "Things that cause people to stumble are bound to come, but woe to anyone through whom they come." It's tragic when they weak are preyed upon, but the blame is on those who exploit them. Not the victims, who in their naivety trusted. They are victims.
     
  5. David1967

    David1967 Well-Known Member
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    "Why does God need a starship?"
     
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  6. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    I would not say the real messiah is at 'fault' in any way
    but he took my 'faults' and gave me his 'no faults'

    not sure there is a Star Trek analogy for that
    but I hear in the original series Gene Rodenbury wanted to have the Enterprise fighting Jesus
    but it was nixed by the networks and brought to you by crowds
     
  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Why does who's at fault matter? Humans are weak, confused, and selfish. Blaming us for it isn't going to change that. All we can really do is be mindful of it, and create social structures that protect us from each other, and when necessary, from ourselves.
     
  8. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Exactly!

    Can easily be expanded to:

    "Why does God need Pat Robertson to speak for God?"

    -- or --

    "Why does God need Hal Lindsey to explain the Bible?"

    And so on-- pick your favorite self-proclaimed GodMessenger.

    Why would God need such as these to "explain", well, anything?
     
  9. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Well.... it would have explained why Jesus missed his promise to return before Paul and his friends, died...

    .... Jesus was on a Galaxy Tour vacation after the stressful 3 day Weekend on Earth, and stumbled into an inescapable Black Hole ...
     
  10. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    DUDE...!!!!

    I was a boy when Lost in Space debuted
    Star Trek was there too

    do you remember as PUPPET show .......XL5.....?
     
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  11. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    as for the creepy mind meld.......

    let's go to the religious debate section and......share our thoughts
     
    #11 Thief, Apr 13, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 13, 2019
  12. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Fireball XL5. And Supercar. And Thunderbirds. Gerry Anderson was the genius behind these.

    Interesting fact: The mouth parts were run by a giant electromagnet, which is why the heads were so big. The current was fed through the wires used to move the puppets.

    The voice actors spoke into an electric gizmo, which translated their voices into current, which in turn, energized the electro-magnets.

    Yeah... I watched'em. Tried watching them as an adult. The only one that wasn't absolutely silly, was Thunderbirds...
     
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  13. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    I made replicas of the spacecraft using cardboard tubes

    nothing like home made toys
     
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  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Riboflavin
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    I've generally thought of Star Trek V (directed by William Shatner) as Shatner's attempt to answer two questions:

    - how could I one-up Leonard Nimoy by making a movie that's more epic than Star Trek IV (directed by Nimoy)?

    - how could I arrange it so that Captain Kirk has a fistfight with God and wins?

    ... but in retrospect, I agree that this "share your pain" stuff is an allegory for something else. It reminds me quite a bit of an experience I had with an organization that I'd consider a quasi-cult: they masqueraded as a "personal mastery" seminar - I got roped into attending with my then-wife. The first thing they'd do is try to get you to share some deep, personal, unpleasant memory. Most of the rest of the weekend was then about selling you their week-long "course" that cost thousands of dollars, whoch many people there signed up for.

    It also reminds me of the tactic in Scientology to find a new recruit's "ruin" as a way of connecting with them.
     
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  15. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    It is fiction....
     
  16. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    Or, why do so many people seem to feel they need these 'go-betweens'?
     
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  17. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Yes-- agreed: Both Star Trek and Jesus are fiction.

    your point?
     
  18. Thief

    Thief Rogue Theologian

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    darn.....we are not in the debate section
     
  19. whirlingmerc

    whirlingmerc Well-Known Member

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    The point is not to take Star Trek too seriously... Jesus being in another category
    you get to invest your life as you like on that and reap the results good or bad.
     
  20. Bob the Unbeliever

    Bob the Unbeliever Well-Known Member

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    Well, to be sure-- Star Trek is far more consistent than the entire bible. And the characters in 'Trek are far more ethical than the Jesus myths.

    So if I were to "invest" in fiction? I'd think the Trek Universe would be the wiser choice.
     
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