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Featured Square Pegs, Round Holes

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Maximilian, Feb 23, 2019.

  1. Maximilian

    Maximilian Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.

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    Fascinatingly, while researching the genetic makeup of over a thousand individuals of diverse ages as well as backgrounds scientists have confirmed that we have all inherited a variety of biological predispositions for spirituality. Put simply, we're hardwired for God: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.go...

    With that being said, individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) are born with neurological deficits such that absolutely no volume of evidence can help these comprehend that which comes so naturally to Neurotypical (NT) individuals, compassion and spirituality.

    It's akin to a person born blind attempting to enjoy the majesty of an exquisite painting or one whose never heard sounds their entire life trying to be moved by a sublime aria.

    [​IMG]
    Source: https://www.researchgate.ne...

    Accordingly, NTs who love God show these compassion and let them be. After all, it's not their fault.
     
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  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    Neurotypicals think they're the ones wired correctly.
    It could be that they only believe this because they
    outnumber others, & believe that consensus is truth.
    I disagree. Tis more likely that those on the high end
    of the autism spectrum are the true "normal" ones.

    Instead of being born blind to the supernatural, they're
    born immune to the mirage of gods. To have less
    empathy is to be inoculated against such illusions.
     
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  3. sun rise

    sun rise "Let there be peace and love among all"
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    There are two different frames-of-reference to my response. The first, science-based, is that the first reference is not about proving the contention but about teaching science using a set of findings from a book Experimenting with Spirituality: Analyzing The God Gene in a Nonmajors Laboratory Course

    The second is a study about how high-functioning autism spectrum people feel about religion. It's an interesting study but especially in this field, replication is needed.

    My second frame-of-reference is based on your conclusion:
    I don't care if someone is a believer or not. If I care about anything, it's about action. Many who call themselves believers act much worse than atheists. And to me the highest form of action, one that I aspire to, is motivated by compassion.
     
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  4. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    Been reading the books of Bokonon, eh.
     
  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    To lack empathy is to be narcissistic and anti-sociopathic (like Donald Trump). It hardly represents the pinnacle of human intellectual growth and achievement.
     
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  6. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    That sounds glib.
    Have any real info associating lack of empathy with
    narcissism or sociopathy (the word you really meant)?

    You might find this interesting....
    The Neuroscientist Who Discovered He Was a Psychopath | Science | Smithsonian

    Hey, @Shadow Wolf, as I recall aren't you also empathy challenged?
    Or am I alone here on RF?
     
    #6 Revoltingest, Feb 23, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
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  7. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    How can one not be narcissistic living in a world that denies them access to the common, universal feelings of others? How can they not be 'anti-social' when they are cut of from the very attributes that most commonly allow us to understand each other? Also, how incredibly sad to live in a world where art is basically just incomprehensible 'noise'.

    Again, I point you to Donald Trump.
     
  8. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    To ask that question doesn't prove that being empathy challenged always means narcissism.
    You claim the connection.
    I find the claim dubious.
    So what is the basis?
    I think you presume too much (especially negative) about lacking empathy.
     
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  9. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    It's just a logical deduction. One can learn to respect the feeling of others, and even to emulate them on cue, but without empathy, it's a bit of a sham, isn't it. A 'play' being put on to try and 'fit into' an emotional landscape that one can't actually experience.
    These things exist by degrees. You are looking only at the extreme end of the scale because that's the end I've illuminated for the sake of clarity.
     
  10. Maximilian

    Maximilian Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.

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    And then there's all of the scientific evidence demonstrating that individuals with Autism Spectrum Disorder (ASD) are born with neurological deficits such that absolutely no volume of evidence can help these comprehend that which comes so naturally to Neurotypical (NT) individuals, compassion and spirituality.
     
  11. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    All I see here is (NT) individual are more likely to relate strongly to a 'Sense of Belonging' and 'Sense of Community; that religions offer in any given society. Rebels and nonconformists (ASD) are less likely to tow the line and embrace the comfort of the Sense of Community.
     
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  12. Maximilian

    Maximilian Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.

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    The research also proves that those with ASD suffer from cognitive processing styles which hamper human spirituality while the Neurotypical have all inherited a variety of biological predispositions for spirituality as well as empathy and compassion.
     
  13. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    There may be a relationship here, but not necessarily for a belief in God. The study was too culturally and religiously narrow.

    More reason (ASD) to reject the 'Sense of Community' that the religion offers to believers. This involves an emotional commitment of 'belief.' For the (NT) the desire for the 'Sense of Community,' would have predispositions for 'spirituality, as well as empathy and compassion,' with the establishment religion in a given culture.

    What is neglected here is the main reason belong to an established religion is the desire for the emotional reward of the 'Sense of Belonging' that the establish community offers. In the Orient some of the established religions lack the belief in a God, and the same desire for the 'Sense of Community' and 'Sense of Belonging' that motivates people to believe. Many Zen Buddhists do not believe in God, but have a strong desire for empathy and compassion, and a predisposition for spirituality, and of course some do not.

    This study failed to take in consideration the other cultures and religions in this study.
     
    #13 shunyadragon, Feb 23, 2019
    Last edited: Feb 23, 2019
  14. Maximilian

    Maximilian Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.

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    Many also form part of established religion in order to satisfy their spiritual need. Such is the case with Christians.
     
  15. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    Also such as Buddhists and Taoists.

    I agree, but that does not confirm any sort of conclusion that humans are hard wired for the belief in God. The only thing I see is that they may be hard wired to dominantly evolve to have a strong 'Sense of Community' and 'Sense of Belonging' to cooperate and survive as families and communities.
     
  16. Maximilian

    Maximilian Energetic proclaimer of Jehovah God's Kingdom.

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    And then there's the reality that human beings, no matter the culture or society, have always had spiritual inclinations; it's very human to be spiritual :)
     
  17. shunyadragon

    shunyadragon Well-Known Member
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    It depends on what you call spiritual(?), based on the limited definitions of the research some of the other choices may or may not be spiritual, but non-conformist choices more common with (ASD), but also both the (ASD) and the (NT) made choices in the different categories, and with the broadness and limited definition of the categories selected would make any conclusions limited. It would not take into account the many (NT) that would make their choices as reason of conformity, and not spirituality.
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    Flawed premise:
    Experienced differently (not so intuitively), rather than not at all.
     
  19. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Libertarian Capitalist Atheist Baconist
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    They experience it more from observation & analysis than intuition.
    We need @Ray Warren to weigh in here.
    He's far nicer than a great many neurotypicals.
     
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  20. Ray Warren

    Ray Warren There is beauty in the silence.

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    (autistic person here)We do too experience empathy..At least most of us do.Do I need to get a bunch of sources on how autistics tend to feel more strongly then NTs when it comes to affective empathy they just tend to lack on cognitive empathy?Because I can do that...and I will I just need a minute.We just appear not to have it because of our difficulties in social skills.
     
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