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Featured Spreading Sharia, e.g. the Suit against Amazon

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by icehorse, Apr 21, 2017.

  1. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    I am against Hobby Lobby being able to refuse birth control coverage, I'm not against Catholic colleges having mass but I am against making attendance mandatory. "Freedom of religion" does not mean the world must cater to you.
    It's also a crap article. They aren't Amazon employees, they don't work for Amazon, and it's not really on Amazon to consider this, it's the contracted company that is hired to take care of the security for Amazon. This article treats them as if they are the same entity, but they aren't. They try to paint Amazon as evil, but then have this:

    Or someone didn't realize/think anything of it. There are making accommodations, and then there is thinking the world revolves around you. From what the article, both companies were very accommodating. But jumping to a conclusion to what was probably nothing as a personal insult is going into the realms of thinking the world revolves around you.
     
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  2. The Ragin Pagan

    The Ragin Pagan A.K.A. The Kilted Heathen

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    Slow your roll.

    Yes, there is quite a bit wrong with a secular company imposing religious opinions.

    Catholic colleges. Meaning private collages. Not funded by the state. Legally free to do whatever they want within rational parameters (no abuse, fraud, etc.)

    Yeah. Businesses closing for any religious holiday are quite annoying. And you want to pray before a flight? Pray on your own dime.

    Accommodations like... what?
     
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  3. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

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    Is it a call to undermine freedom of religion in the name of secularism? Please
    Had the Atheism people needed a place to pray, I would support that they should be provided a place to pray? Please
    Regards
    Whose fault it is that Atheism people don't pray?
    Please
     
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  4. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    It's about making sure that religious people can't force others to do stuff they don't want to do. If I run a company and I'm an atheist, I don't want to be forced to let my employees spend time on the job praying. They are free to do their praying when they're not at work.
     
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  5. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

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    As far as I know, most pray during break time. I would see nothing wrong with them taking brakes at certain times (of course if the position/job permits), but I would not allow them any extra time because of their religion that others do not get.
     
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  6. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    Inaccurate and inflammatory title aside, obviously Amazon didn't think this was an unreasonable request, they just worked out details of space issues. This really isn't unusual with contract work where independent contractors set their own or negotiate for their own hours and breaks. If the break happens to be used for prayer, who cares? My clinic certainly wouldn't care if someone in our very diverse group of faiths prayed quietly in an unused room.
    Being needlessly antireligious is not secularism.

    Signed
    a long time independent contractor
     
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  7. arthra

    arthra Baha'i

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    In the article cited by the opening post it states..

    “Our employees assigned to Amazon have always been permitted to access space (when available) to pray on breaks, even before dedicated prayer rooms were formally introduced,” he said. “Before prayer rooms were introduced, employees generally used a vacant conference room or quiet room, when available..."

    Sounds fair to me...
     
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  8. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    And yet, a suit is being brought.
     
  9. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    The sense you got, and the sense you sought to convey, and the sense you sought to invoke was one of encroaching Sharia Law. It differs in no significant way from the Yellow Peril warning of an earlier age.
     
  10. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    Wrong on two counts:

    1 - I raised a concern about BOTH Islamic and Christian actions to use the cloak of "religious freedom" to attempt to erode secularism.
    2 - Yellow Peril was a racist idea. My criticism concerns religions not races. You should know the difference and not conflate the two.
     
  11. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
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    Dog whistle, plain and simple ...
     
  12. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    What is the name of the Christian body of law used in a Christian theocracy?
     
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  13. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist In Hac Lacrimarum Valle

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    I have experience with a Muslim co-worker first hand. At three o'clock each day he would stop work to go and pray in the first aid room. Usually this took no more than a few minutes and since knock-off was at half-past anyway the actual inconvenience to us was less than minimal. There is no basis in secularism to object to such observance.

    My point is that as hard as it may be for you understand, religion is important to the lives of many people. You don't put religion aside just because you've step foot in a workplace. It may not be a 'need' that a Sikh wear a turban, but what good reason is there to object? Similarly it is not 'secularism' to insist that a Muslim can't take mere minutes each day to pray at three o'clock. All you achieve by doing so is to alienate people.

    Now what is reasonable is a case by case basis. But I just don't see how taking five minutes each day for a religious obligation is at all unreasonable.The real objection seems to be nothing more than ideologically driven anti-religion.
     
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  14. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    And yet, a lawsuit is in progress.
     
  15. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist In Hac Lacrimarum Valle

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    My point isn't about this case specifically. I take issue with your frankly ludicrous assertion that reasonable accommodations for religious observance is an undermining of secularism.
     
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  16. icehorse

    icehorse Well-Known Member
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    I take issue with constant pressure from some religious groups, chiefly Christian and Islamic, to use "religious freedom" as a cover to move religious agendas into the commons, and yes, encroach on the separation of church and state. Each group is biting the hand that protects it, i.e. secularism.
     
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  17. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist In Hac Lacrimarum Valle

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    I don't see any serious chance of that in any western society. Yes there are extreme elements within certain religious groups who do pose a growing problem for society but that's a different issue. I'm as against the notion of a Sharia court as you undoubtedly would be.

    But it seems to me that there is a growing notion of secularism among people such as yourself which goes further than simple state neutrality. You want the state to proactively protect you from having to deal with the religious beliefs of others. Sorry, but you don't go to an Indian restaurant and demand beef in your curry, a Christian church and demand a gay wedding service, or baselessly insist that it's unreasonable to permit a Muslim employee a few minutes each day to pray at three o'clock. That's not secularism, that's using the state as an instrument of ideological bullying.
     
    #57 Musing Bassist, Apr 22, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2017
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  18. ADigitalArtist

    ADigitalArtist Well-Known Member
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    And yet, Amazon already has a prayer space set aside for their own Muslim employers (and Other faiths as well), nullifying your OP complaint. Muslims who work there including Usama Baioumy went on record saying they had. This dispute is with the SIS subcontractor on behalf of Amazon, which has had previous lawsuits against it for things like trying to quash unionizing or providing sick pay. Sounds like this situation is very, very far from what you claim it to be
    Muslims to March on Amazon Over Prayer Breaks
     
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  19. The Emperor of Mankind

    The Emperor of Mankind Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic

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    Just because you keep saying it doesn't make it so.
     
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  20. Servant_of_the_One1

    Servant_of_the_One1 Well-Known Member

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    U dont know the benefits of prayer rooms.
    Other religious people should try that too. 5 min praying.
    I dont see any issue with that, because smokers get the same time to go outside.

    But i know OP's heavy war against islam and muslims. Not surprised here at all. "O You damn muslims, you spreading shariahlaw by praying at work".
     
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