spirituality, sexuality, & gender

[Kapalika]

Yes.

It's cool your spirituality informed/helped your gender identity. Are you in a good place now?

Define good. I'm in a lot better position than 6 months ago if that is what you are asking.

What's interesting about this LGBT thing is the sexualization of our society.
And if anyone can demonstrate that is a good thing (even with children now)
then go ahead and show me. As for what God thinks about our society - it
depends on what God you are talking of - certainly the God of the bible would
have an issue with our adulterous and drug addled society.

"LGBT thing"?

What's so adulterous about being LGBT+? What do drugs have to do with this?

 

[PruePhillip]

Define good. I'm in a lot better position than 6 months ago if that is what you are asking.



"LGBT thing"?

What's so adulterous about being LGBT+? What do drugs have to do with this?

What's the bible's position on
lesbian
homosexual
bisexual
transsexual

The first three would attract the death penalty
the last one wouldn't be believed.

Drugs and transactional sex are two peas in the same pod, same too with
adultery, pornography and the like. I feel sorry for kids growing up in a world
where this is all normalized. The cynicism alone is shocking.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

A transsexual can change their body but not their soul/spirit.

As a Christian, we are male or female spirit/souls. The body simply reflects who you are.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Spirit of Light]

Has anyone else had spiritual experiences that informed you on your sexuality or gender identity? Or even rather, discovering something about your sexuality or gender identity/expression ect that has made you reevaluate your religion or spiritual values or views?

Almost a decade ago, I realized that I wasn't cisgender. This was able to come about because as a practicing Satanist, my path on magic had lead me to reflect on myself and own innate nature, as Satanism as a whole generally promotes some sense of elevating nature, particularly that considered carnal. At first it was that without a thought, I just knew I wasn't a guy but I didn't necessarily consider myself anything specific at first. Over the next 2 or 3 years I slowly came to terms with the fact that I'm a woman.

When I was coming to terms with that, I adopted Kashmir Shaivism into my religion, and I realized the importance of the Trika of goddesses and generally the role of Shakti, and the relation between Shiva, Shakti and Anu. They say that the path to realizing the Self as Shiva is through Shakti, and in a weird way, my transition has brought me closer to Shiva. Embracing feminine energy in my transition has helped me on my own spiritual journey and vice versa.

I'm just wondering if anyone else has had a similar experience.

The spiritual lifestyle have lead me more and more away from sexual activity and it is practically non-existing in the relationship i living with my fiancée, But since we both are agreed about it, it does not hinder us in living a very good life together. The attachments to having a sexual relationship is gone, it is just not there, but if we were to engage in it again it is just something that happens there and then.

 

[Kapalika]

What's the bible's position on
lesbian
homosexual
bisexual
transsexual

The first three would attract the death penalty
the last one wouldn't be believed.

Drugs and transactional sex are two peas in the same pod, same too with
adultery, pornography and the like. I feel sorry for kids growing up in a world
where this is all normalized. The cynicism alone is shocking.

Well then you aren't making a very good argument for the morality of that bible with the first 3, and I think that there is some biblical evidence and other historical evidence for at some points in history, the ancient Hebrews recognizing gender variance outside of the cis gender binary.

Drugs and transactional sex huh? I don't think anyone else here ever mentioned drugs and prostitution, or pornography. Quite the contrary, cis men are probably much more interested in pornography than most other groups if I had to guess. Most of it is catered to them after all, particularly heterosexual cis men.

A transsexual can change their body but not their soul/spirit.

As a Christian, we are male or female spirit/souls. The body simply reflects who you are.

Good-Ole-Rebel

So if someone can change their body, but not their soul, you'd agree then that changing the body to accurately match their soul, to alleviate the pain from the mismatch, would be the best course of action? We would be in agreement then.

Also, speaking for nonbinary transgender individuals, they would very much disagree that there are only male or female souls. My own partner is two spirited and ethnically Native American so it's part of their heritage; they are not classified as strictly male OR female. They just are them.

The spiritual lifestyle have lead me more and more away from sexual activity and it is practically non-existing in the relationship i living with my fiancée, But since we both are agreed about it, it does not hinder us in living a very good life together. The attachments to having a sexual relationship is gone, it is just not there, but if we were to engage in it again it is just something that happens there and then.

I somewhat relate, in that I am not nearly as interested in sex myself as I used to be. My own transition had a lot to do with that though more so than spirituality but I'm sure that played a small role, in that I am just less interested in hedonism in general. I rarely even drink anymore, but I still have a lot of issues with food as a nice eating until I feel sick. Thankfully I'm active enough I don't really gain weight, but my god do I feel sick sometimes. I am addicted to dairy and spicy food.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

So if someone can change their body, but not their soul, you'd agree then that changing the body to accurately match their soul, to alleviate the pain from the mismatch, would be the best course of action? We would be in agreement then.

Also, speaking for nonbinary transgender individuals, they would very much disagree that there are only male or female souls. My own partner is two spirited and ethnically Native American so it's part of their heritage; they are not classified as strictly male OR female. They just are them.

There never was a mismatch. When a person is born, their body reflects who they are. Male or female. Thus changing the body creates confusion as the soul/spirit does not change. I would say rather, confusion exists in the person prior, to any change, but it is not due to the mismatch of body and soul/spirit.

Native American are no different than any other person on earth as far as body, soul, spirit.

This is my 'Christian view'. I say these things based upon what I believe the Bible is teaching. The Bible declares to be the Word of God, and I believe it. The Bible being both Old and New Testament. 'Male and female created he them'. (Gen. 1:27)

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Kapalika]

There never was a mismatch. When a person is born, their body reflects who they are.

How would you know? You are not able to feel someone else's qualia or experiences.

Male or female. Thus changing the body creates confusion as the soul/spirit does not change.

Are you aware that all fetuses start off as female with female reproductive organs? The penis and cliterous literally start as the same structure, and the ovaries drop to become testicles. Everyone starts off as female, and about half of developing fetuses are masculinized by androgens later on in the pregnancy.

So even ignoring one's own experiences and self-knowledge, you're literally wrong on a purely physical basis.

Also, as a general note, sex is much more varied than you might realize; how would you classify intersex people? What about conditions that gives someone one gendered phenotype but the genetic configuration corresponding another phenotype? Androgen sensitivity disorder is an example of that, where the chromozones are XY but hey have female reproductive organs and secondary sex characteristics from birth. Such people usually don't know they have the condition unless their genetics are tested. There was a famous case of this with an athlete years ago, where she didn't know she was born with XY chromozones.

There are also 'chimeras' or people who developed as basically fraternal twin zygotes that absorbed early in the pregnancy into one fetus. There's literally been a case where a woman's own child didn't match to her DNA in testing, because it turned out that her reproductive organs were the DNA sequence of her unknown twin that was absorbed into her during the pregnancy, while the rest of her was her own set of DNA. Likewise fraternal twin zygotes can be of different sexes and so chimeric individuals can have different parts of their bodies with XX or XY. And let's not forget klinefelter syndrome where an individual is XXY and has sex characteristics of both males and females.

I would say rather, confusion exists in the person prior, to any change, but it is not due to the mismatch of body and soul/spirit.

How conveniently transphobic.

Native American are no different than any other person on earth as far as body, soul, spirit.

Everyone's body, spirit and soul is different, regardless of ethnic or cultural differences. However, we cannot ignore one's beliefs about their soul and spirit when we are discussing it; their beliefs are part of that reality. People generally know themselves better than anyone else can.

This is my 'Christian view'. I say these things based upon what I believe the Bible is teaching. The Bible declares to be the Word of God, and I believe it. The Bible being both Old and New Testament. 'Male and female created he them'. (Gen. 1:27)

Good-Ole-Rebel

The Christian bible is not a medical textbook and you do it a disservice by trying to make it one.

Saying god created man and woman doesn't automatically mean that one's assigned gender, even if based on primary sex characteristics, is always going to be accurate to either their medical sex OR their gender. Simply put, saying god created man and woman says nothing to refute transgender people's existence. A binary transgender person IS male OR female, it's just that people got it wrong or there is a medical issue mismatching the brain and body; that is perfectly fitting within being one of the two things that the Christian bible says that god created.

Likewise, the Bible also doesn't list every single type of thing that exists in the world that we know about, will we ignore them existing too because they are not mentioned? Saying that god created man and woman in no way means he didn't also create nonbinary people. They very much do exist, so if god created everything, he obviously created them too.

Either way, religion is NO excuse for transphobia or nonbinary erasure, same as religion is NO excuse for racism. People used the Christian bible to support slavery of African Americans too you know, and I can even point to the verses. Or, given your screen name and avatar, are you opposed to that even?

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

How would you know? You are not able to feel someone else's qualia or experiences.



Are you aware that all fetuses start off as female with female reproductive organs? The penis and cliterous literally start as the same structure, and the ovaries drop to become testicles. Everyone starts off as female, and about half of developing fetuses are masculinized by androgens later on in the pregnancy.

So even ignoring one's own experiences and self-knowledge, you're literally wrong on a purely physical basis.

Also, as a general note, sex is much more varied than you might realize; how would you classify intersex people? What about conditions that gives someone one gendered phenotype but the genetic configuration corresponding another phenotype? Androgen sensitivity disorder is an example of that, where the chromozones are XY but hey have female reproductive organs and secondary sex characteristics from birth. Such people usually don't know they have the condition unless their genetics are tested. There was a famous case of this with an athlete years ago, where she didn't know she was born with XY chromozones.

There are also 'chimeras' or people who developed as basically fraternal twin zygotes that absorbed early in the pregnancy into one fetus. There's literally been a case where a woman's own child didn't match to her DNA in testing, because it turned out that her reproductive organs were the DNA sequence of her unknown twin that was absorbed into her during the pregnancy, while the rest of her was her own set of DNA. Likewise fraternal twin zygotes can be of different sexes and so chimeric individuals can have different parts of their bodies with XX or XY. And let's not forget klinefelter syndrome where an individual is XXY and has sex characteristics of both males and females.



How conveniently transphobic.



Everyone's body, spirit and soul is different, regardless of ethnic or cultural differences. However, we cannot ignore one's beliefs about their soul and spirit when we are discussing it; their beliefs are part of that reality. People generally know themselves better than anyone else can.



The Christian bible is not a medical textbook and you do it a disservice by trying to make it one.

Saying god created man and woman doesn't automatically mean that one's assigned gender, even if based on primary sex characteristics, is always going to be accurate to either their medical sex OR their gender. Simply put, saying god created man and woman says nothing to refute transgender people's existence. A binary transgender person IS male OR female, it's just that people got it wrong or there is a medical issue mismatching the brain and body; that is perfectly fitting within being one of the two things that the Christian bible says that god created.

Likewise, the Bible also doesn't list every single type of thing that exists in the world that we know about, will we ignore them existing too because they are not mentioned? Saying that god created man and woman in no way means he didn't also create nonbinary people. They very much do exist, so if god created everything, he obviously created them too.

Either way, religion is NO excuse for transphobia or nonbinary erasure, same as religion is NO excuse for racism. People used the Christian bible to support slavery of African Americans too you know, and I can even point to the verses. Or, given your screen name and avatar, are you opposed to that even?

Well, it is your thread and you titled it 'spirtuality, sexuality, and gender'. And you asked for spiritual input or experiences concerning this. So I have given you my religious, and spiritual input.

Again, my view is based upon me being a Christian and believing the Bible is the Word of God, both Old and New Testaments.

God makes no mistakes. He created man and woman as man and woman. If there is confusion in the individual as to their proper gender, it is not due to their body being mismatched with their soul/spirit. It is due to some wrong thinking about themselves and God.

Yes, I know the Bible supports the institution of slavery. I can give you the verses also. So, no, I am not opposed to slavery as it is the very condition of all mankind. The non-believer is a slave. The believer is a slave. Mankind was made a slave by God. He was never made independent from God. You are a slave to satan or God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Kapalika]

Well, it is your thread and you titled it 'spirtuality, sexuality, and gender'. And you asked for spiritual input or experiences concerning this. So I have given you my religious, and spiritual input.

Actually I asked if anyone else had experiences with their gender or sexuality informing their spirituality, or vice versa. You said nothing about your own personal gender or sexuality, which is what I was asking about; not commentary on the validity of transgender or nonbinary people's existence. The existence of this thread wasn't an invitation for transphobia.

Nice try though.

Yes, I know the Bible supports the institution of slavery. I can give you the verses also. So, no, I am not opposed to slavery as it is the very condition of all mankind. The non-believer is a slave. The believer is a slave. Mankind was made a slave by God. He was never made independent from God. You are a slave to satan or God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Yikes. Here I was hoping you might at least have some kind of neo-Confederate historical revisionism that tries to distance your identity from slavery. I've seen people at least downplay the role of slavery and excuse the resistance to immediate abolition while otherwise condemning slavery, but it's not often I see someone of your... style, actually outright defend slavery wholesale. WTF. (edit: if you did try to distance from it somehow, it would of made my argument a little easier but I couldn't resist finding out either way as you really had no way to win with that comparison).

I find it interesting how you admit you support slavery and try to deflect it with metaphorical slavery, as if that is comparable to a human actually owning another human against their will. The sad part is, the only benefit of the doubt I could possibly give you is that you think people should be able to be literally enslaved to other humans regardless of their race, but I'm willing put my chips in that you don't want any white people enslaved.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Actually I asked if anyone else had experiences with their gender or sexuality informing their spirituality, or vice versa. You said nothing about your own personal gender or sexuality, which is what I was asking about; not commentary on the validity of transgender or nonbinary people's existence. The existence of this thread wasn't an invitation for transphobia.

Nice try though.



I find it interesting how you admit you support slavery and try to deflect it with metaphorical slavery, as if that is comparable to a human actually owning another human against their will. The sad part is, the only benefit of the doubt I could possibly give you is that you think people should be able to be literally enslaved to other humans regardless of their race, but I'm willing put my chips in that you don't want any white people enslaved.

Well, the views I gave are my views based on me being a Christian and believing the Bible is the Word of God, both Old and New Testaments.

I wasn't deflecting. And the slavery I speak of is not metaphorical. I did not say slavery must exist among a people. If it doesn't exist, fine. I said, according to the Bible, slavery is a legitimate institution.

The Christian is a slave, bought and paid for. (1 Cor. 6:19-20) We traded slave masters. (Rom. 6:16-23)

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Audie]

Well, the views I gave are my views based on me being a Christian and believing the Bible is the Word of God, both Old and New Testaments.

I wasn't deflecting. And the slavery I speak of is not metaphorical. I did not say slavery must exist among a people. If it doesn't exist, fine. I said, according to the Bible, slavery is a legitimate institution.

The Christian is a slave, bought and paid for. (1 Cor. 6:19-20) We traded slave masters. (Rom. 6:16-23)

Good-Ole-Rebel

Wouldnt it be more acurate to say-
"I believe my chosen version of what the bible says...."

Not all bible-believers are about to agree with your version,
after all.

 

[Kapalika]

Well, the views I gave are my views based on me being a Christian and believing the Bible is the Word of God, both Old and New Testaments.

That type of feedback was neither solicited nor welcome. I don't care how you dress transphobia.

I wasn't deflecting. And the slavery I speak of is not metaphorical. I did not say slavery must exist among a people. If it doesn't exist, fine. I said, according to the Bible, slavery is a legitimate institution.

Either you think it's okay to own other people or you don't. You don;t have to say you think it's okay for it to be very clear that you do, by the way you are framing your statements. We all know what you are getting at.

 

[Audie]

Well, it is your thread and you titled it 'spirtuality, sexuality, and gender'. And you asked for spiritual input or experiences concerning this. So I have given you my religious, and spiritual input.

Again, my view is based upon me being a Christian and believing the Bible is the Word of God, both Old and New Testaments.

God makes no mistakes. He created man and woman as man and woman. If there is confusion in the individual as to their proper gender, it is not due to their body being mismatched with their soul/spirit. It is due to some wrong thinking about themselves and God.

Yes, I know the Bible supports the institution of slavery. I can give you the verses also. So, no, I am not opposed to slavery as it is the very condition of all mankind. The non-believer is a slave. The believer is a slave. Mankind was made a slave by God. He was never made independent from God. You are a slave to satan or God.

Good-Ole-Rebel

This does much to explain how you can proudly
display that profoundly offensive flag.

 

[Kapalika]

This does much to explain how you can proudly
display that profoundly offensive flag.

There are unfortunately some people who are taught a revisionist history in individual state run public education systems (or otherwise misinformed), who while not *actively trying* to be racist use the flag to symbolize southern pride... then you got guys like this that basically admit to being racist despite knowing better, by actively condoning slavery.

I'm not excusing a traitorous flag by any means, I'm just pointing out that some people have a chance to see the error of their ways... while others... yikes, just have no hope.

 

[Audie]

There are unfortunately some people who are taught a revisionist history in individual state run public education systems (or otherwise misinformed), who while not *actively trying* to be racist use the flag to symbolize southern pride... then you got guys like this that basically admit to being racist despite knowing better, by actively condoning slavery.

I'm not excusing a traitorous flag by any means, I'm just pointing out that some people have a chance to see the error of their ways... while others... yikes, just have no hope.

To the "chicoms" this is a traitorous flag

flag of taiwan - Google Search

In the event no symbol means more than what society attaches to it.
That said, and given that a substantial majority find the stars n bars.
handsome flag tho it may be, to be offensive and a symbol
of racism, it seems to me a matter of common decency to
refrain from the display.

And, FTM, a lack of same to display it anyway.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Wouldnt it be more acurate to say-
"I believe my chosen version of what the bible says...."

Not all bible-believers are about to agree with your version,
after all.

I am not worried that all agree with me. I have told you why I believe what I do. If you disagree, then you are free to show me where and why.

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Audie]

I am not worried that all agree with me. I have told you why I believe what I do. If you disagree, then you are free to show me where and why.

Good-Ole-Rebel

Like i care to go down that rabbit hole.

In the event I was referring to your saying you
believe the bible, but what you are really doing
is believing what you think it says.

That you evidently think you have the
(one) True Reading, unlike all them
others with their wrong readings.

You believe things that sincere Christians would
say are false. And vice versa.

So it is the version you choose to believe
that you believe in.

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

Like i care to go down that rabbit hole.

In the event I was referring to your saying you
believe the bible, but what you are really doing
is believing what you think it says.

That you evidently think you have the
(one) True Reading, unlike all them
others with their wrong readings.

You believe things that sincere Christians would
say are false. And vice versa.

So it is the version you choose to believe
that you believe in.

Well, I have stated what my belief is based upon.

You come complaining that I haven't gone far enough in stating what my belief is based upon. Yet, you haven't said a word about what your opinion or belief is based upon.

So, what is your opinion based upon....you?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

That type of feedback was neither solicited nor welcome. I don't care how you dress transphobia.



Either you think it's okay to own other people or you don't. You don;t have to say you think it's okay for it to be very clear that you do, by the way you are framing your statements. We all know what you are getting at.

That type of feedback is necessary for me to say what I want to say.

I said that God condones and implemented slavery in the Bible. Slavery is the real condition of mankind. I am not avoiding the slave question. One cannot use the Bible to attack slavery.

So, what am I getting at?

Good-Ole-Rebel

 

[Good-Ole-Rebel]

This does much to explain how you can proudly
display that profoundly offensive flag.

All you have to do is ask.

You are not offended by the flag. You are offended by the lies you want to believe about the flag.

But, I think we are getting away from the topic of the thread.

Good-Ole-Rebel