Spirituality is Fantasy...

[Nakosis]

I really just saying that's how I see it.
I'm not against someone's personal investment in spirituality. Fantasy is there to support one's emotional needs.

I just can't accept it as a reality. It's like patriotism, it's an emotional motivator. It's not a reality but it's a way of looking at reality, finding a personal benefit in.

It's not my intent to talk anyone out of their spirituality. It's just personally, I could never accept it as a serious reality. For me it'd be like roleplaying a game in an imagined universe. It my be fun as an imagined reality at some point I'd have to put the imagined reality away and realize it was all pretend.

I'd see it as a way to temporarily suspend belief and enjoy a fictional universe. I see myself as incapable of mustering any conviction in a spiritual reality.

However I see a lot of possibility in science and technology. Using science and technology to make actual things happen. To create an actual experience which on the surface may even appear magical. However everything gets done by cause and effect. The results are known, predictable and alterable. No need to imagine a cause and effect which may or may not have anything to do with reality.

 

[WalterTrull]

Mehh...

 

[`mud]

A really good #1...But someone will try to outdo it !
Like I always like to say...Life is Stuff and the Cosmos is forever.

 

[`mud]

Oh Walt,
Mehh yourself ! Is that all you got !

 

[PureX]

I really just saying that's how I see it.
I'm not against someone's personal investment in spirituality. Fantasy is there to support one's emotional needs.

I just can't accept it as a reality. It's like patriotism, it's an emotional motivator. It's not a reality but it's a way of looking at reality, finding a personal benefit in

How do you reason that the way we "look at" (cognate) the world around us is not a part of that world?

Many plants change their physical orientation to to the sun to maximize their ability to photosynthesize the sunlight into energy. They do this by way of their cells contracting on the side of the plant that's facing the sun (in response to the increase in heat) and thus causing the plant's stem to bend toward the sun. It is in effect a very simply example of a life form perceiving and reaction to the "world" around it. Just as we humans do, only much less complex.

So, what part of the plants perception-reaction to sunlight is not "real"? What part of it is not part of the world within which it is occurring? And when the human brain does basically the same thing, though far more complex and sophisticated bio-chemically, how is this also not "real"? How is it also not a part of the world in which it is occurring?

 

[sun rise]

“Life is but a momentary glimpse of the wonder of this astounding universe, and" the search for meaning and understanding is a wonderful part of the cosmos.

 

[sealchan]

I really just saying that's how I see it.
I'm not against someone's personal investment in spirituality. Fantasy is there to support one's emotional needs.

I just can't accept it as a reality. It's like patriotism, it's an emotional motivator. It's not a reality but it's a way of looking at reality, finding a personal benefit in.

It's not my intent to talk anyone out of their spirituality. It's just personally, I could never accept it as a serious reality. For me it'd be like roleplaying a game in an imagined universe. It my be fun as an imagined reality at some point I'd have to put the imagined reality away and realize it was all pretend.

I'd see it as a way to temporarily suspend belief and enjoy a fictional universe. I see myself as incapable of mustering any conviction in a spiritual reality.

However I see a lot of possibility in science and technology. Using science and technology to make actual things happen. To create an actual experience which on the surface may even appear magical. However everything gets done by cause and effect. The results are known, predictable and alterable. No need to imagine a cause and effect which may or may not have anything to do with reality.

But I think this "spiritual fantasy" is necessary. And to respond to Carl Sagan (a deeply influential thinker in my life)...a GOOD spiritual fantasy helps us to see the astonishment of the Universe in all its current scientific glory...not dream it away.

That's what critics of and believers in traditional religion get wrong...if you take out the need for literalism, you allow for creative (inspired) human art to freely and sincerely express itself, you have a deeply satisfying and inspirational art that helps us to apply morality to an ever evolving human experience.

 

[PureX]

It's easier to understand spirituality if we let go of the idea of invisible, disembodied, personalities, and think of it more in terms of the way we are able to "read a room" full of humans and gain a general sense of what they are all collectively thinking and feeling. The "spirit of joy and hopefulness" we might intuit upon entering an active wedding reception hall, for example. The way the "state of being" experienced by all those other people is able to inhabit us, and alter our own state of being to align with theirs.

There are a thousand ways this 'state of being' may be conveyed and transferred from person to person. And it may have some complex chemical, psychological, sociological medium through which it is being conveyed. But the point of the term, and of the idea of "spirit" is not about the mechanisms of conveyance, but of the individual and collective experience of this 'way of being'. Of this "spirit within us" that can be shared with and communicated to others.

Spirituality does not have to be presumed some form of magic. It's just too quick and complex for us to bother explaining away. And why should we, after all?

 

[Nakosis]

But I think this "spiritual fantasy" is necessary. And to respond to Carl Sagan (a deeply influential thinker in my life)...a GOOD spiritual fantasy helps us to see the astonishment of the Universe in all its current scientific glory...not dream it away.

That's what critics of and believers in traditional religion get wrong...if you take out the need for literalism, you allow for creative (inspired) human art to freely and sincerely express itself, you have a deeply satisfying and inspirational art that helps us to apply morality to an ever evolving human experience.

I'm fine with art, music, fantasy/creativity. There's just a type of spirituality I had in mind. Using crystals, prayer, spells, astrology. I can't see myself investing enough conviction in it to accept an actual correlation to reality.

Heck, I talk to my car, ask it not to break down. I suppose it inspires a little hope even though I really know me talking to my car really has no effect.

 

[PureX]

I'm fine with art, music, fantasy/creativity. There's just a type of spirituality I had in mind. Using crystals, prayer, spells, astrology. I can't see myself investing enough conviction in it to accept an actual correlation to reality.

Heck, I talk to my car, ask it not to break down. I suppose it inspires a little hope even though I really know me talking to my car really has no effect.

Do you really know that? Or do you just believe it until you have nowhere else to turn?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I really just saying that's how I see it.
I'm not against someone's personal investment in spirituality. Fantasy is there to support one's emotional needs.

I just can't accept it as a reality. It's like patriotism, it's an emotional motivator. It's not a reality but it's a way of looking at reality, finding a personal benefit in.

It's not my intent to talk anyone out of their spirituality. It's just personally, I could never accept it as a serious reality. For me it'd be like roleplaying a game in an imagined universe. It my be fun as an imagined reality at some point I'd have to put the imagined reality away and realize it was all pretend.

I'd see it as a way to temporarily suspend belief and enjoy a fictional universe. I see myself as incapable of mustering any conviction in a spiritual reality.

However I see a lot of possibility in science and technology. Using science and technology to make actual things happen. To create an actual experience which on the surface may even appear magical. However everything gets done by cause and effect. The results are known, predictable and alterable. No need to imagine a cause and effect which may or may not have anything to do with reality.

I never heard of that definition. Spirituality is a mind and body connection. It happens when both body and mind become away of itself and the world around them. It is also a brief way that people find connection between other people. People experience it when they have children. Others in their passions. Some experience it via meditation. Others eating meal with family.

The spirit (nature and motion of a person) connects the mind and body to where we are fully alive psychologically, psyiologically, and all the above. Its maturity or the "I get it now" experience.

Its not specific to religion; so, I dont see how its connected to fantasy.

 

[Nakosis]

How do you reason that the way we "look at" (cognate) the world around us is not a part of that world?

Many plants change their physical orientation to to the sun to maximize their ability to photosynthesize the sunlight into energy. They do this by way of their cells contracting on the side of the plant that's facing the sun (in response to the increase in heat) and thus causing the plant's stem to bend toward the sun. It is in effect a very simply example of a life form perceiving and reaction to the "world" around it. Just as we humans do, only much less complex.

So, what part of the plants perception-reaction to sunlight is not "real"? What part of it is not part of the world within which it is occurring? And when the human brain does basically the same thing, though far more complex and sophisticated bio-chemically, how is this also not "real"? How is it also not a part of the world in which it is occurring?

If you believe something is true and you base your decision on it, it might as well be true. I understand what we believe affect our choices, affects our actions thereby creating an actual effect on reality.

However what you believe is happenstance to reality other than its effect on the choice you make. Which means what you believed to be true has no actual effect on reality. The result of your choices are unpredictable, unrepeatable, pseudo random. Not necessarily leading to something bad but to something you never really had any control over.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm fine with art, music, fantasy/creativity. There's just a type of spirituality I had in mind. Using crystals, prayer, spells, astrology. I can't see myself investing enough conviction in it to accept an actual correlation to reality.

Heck, I talk to my car, ask it not to break down. I suppose it inspires a little hope even though I really know me talking to my car really has no effect.

Thats not spirituality. Spirituality is the result and experience of these practices. What people experience when they do these practices, rituals, and prayers. Its the motivator or verb behind the action to some or the result and enheightened experience of the other.

 

[sealchan]

I'm fine with art, music, fantasy/creativity. There's just a type of spirituality I had in mind. Using crystals, prayer, spells, astrology. I can't see myself investing enough conviction in it to accept an actual correlation to reality.

Heck, I talk to my car, ask it not to break down. I suppose it inspires a little hope even though I really know me talking to my car really has no effect.

That's the value of diversity in spiritual practice...what speaks to you is subjective, personal and meaningful. What truths you derive are constantly under the thumb of experience and need continual attention and nurturing. The goal isn't to obtain a tablet of eternal truths but to remain engaged and excited about ones experience of life.

 

[Nakosis]

I never heard of that definition. Spirituality is a mind and body connection. It happens when both body and mind become away of itself and the world around them. It is also a brief way that people find connection between other people. People experience it when they have children. Others in their passions. Some experience it via meditation. Others eating meal with family.

The spirit (nature and motion of a person) connects the mind and body to where we are fully alive psychologically, psyiologically, and all the above. Its maturity or the "I get it now" experience.

Its not specific to religion; so, I dont see how its connected to fantasy.

I'm going to be blunt about my opinion but I'm not intending to be judgemental.

The the mind and body as I see it, is already connected. It's always connected, it's never separated. To think otherwise is fantasy. People may get some emotional benefit out of believing in this separation and reunification or coming to a balance, but that is not a reality.

The spirit is just an idea that motivates you, the spirit of love, the spirit of hope, the spirit of mercy etc...
It's a feeling conjured up by your mind to motivate you. it has no existence separate from the feeling that you feel. If you create a separate existence for it, then that's a fantasy.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm going to be blunt about my opinion but I'm not intending to be judgemental.

The the mind and body as I see it, is already connected. It's always connected, it's never separated. To think otherwise is fantasy. People may get some emotional benefit out of believing in this separation and reunification or coming to a balance, but that is not a reality.

The spirit is just an idea that motivates you, the spirit of love, the spirit of hope, the spirit of mercy etc...
It's a feeling conjured up by your mind to motivate you. it has no existence separate from the feeling that you feel. If you create a separate existence for it, then that's a fantasy.

Spirituality is realizing there is a body and mind connection. Not many people feel connected or well balanced in life. So, when they are finally in the briefest of moments, they call it having spirituality (one of many words to describe it)

Not all religions define body and mind separate. Those that do are mostly saying their life isnt aligned until they get that experience to make them whole.

I try to read between the lines. Its psychological but not fantasy.

 

[Nakosis]

That's the value of diversity in spiritual practice...what speaks to you is subjective, personal and meaningful. What truths you derive are constantly under the thumb of experience and need continual attention and nurturing. The goal isn't to obtain a tablet of eternal truths but to remain engaged and excited about ones experience of life.

Sure, create whatever fantasy needed to motivate you. I guess my point is I can't see myself investing enough belief in it to motivate me to action. I know there is no actual connection to reality. So you imagine a reality to generate feelings for you to experience but not base any decisions on it knowing there is no actual correlation to reality.

Watch a movie, read fiction. This causes you to experience feelings. People like feeling certain ways. However that is fiction. In most cases people know it is fiction. They aren't going to make a decision based on some plot twist in a movie, though I suppose some might. It's just not really a good idea. You may enjoy your feelings, but reality doesn't give a damn about them.

If you want a table of eternal truths, I suspect science would be a better bet. That's were real cause and effect is, where one can have actual control.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you really know that? Or do you just believe it until you have nowhere else to turn?

I know enough about cars to know me talking to it has no effect.

 

[Quintessence]

Spirituality is a pretty nebulous term. What do you mean by it?

 

[osgart]

By spirituality, you must mean an abstract non physical existence where the essence of being resides and is cojoined by the body in the physical world. Duality.

Or perhaps an ethereal substance that cant be detected. A life force.

I suppose it is fantasy til someone proves its real.

There are a lot of interesting subjective experiences that exist beyond explanation.

The assumption of materialism appears so strongly as the actual reality, that most people take that for granted as being the case.

But reality could in fact be much stranger than anticipated. If one accepts an intelligence being responsible for the makings of life then that leaves the door wide open to embrace spirituality of some kind.