1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Spirituality and science

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Unveiled Artist, Sep 5, 2021.

  1. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    First of all as a bio life a human I would never compare my life to a machine.

    Designed by its theist a human designer using maths. Not just for a machine but it's resource to function and then gaining the resource changing the planets mass for the resource.

    Mind to machine conscious application designer bio human designer.

    Machine back to machine but interferes with natural first conscious self the designer. Human.

    Designer conscious voided from its origin realisations by machines.

    Human warning consciousness to self don't let the machine take over your thinking.

    Too late it already has. By what young theists state.

    Planet stone earth are machine components taken from stone mass.

    Human a bio consciousness living naturally not by science design knows.

    Spirituality. Self. Human. Aware human. Bio conscious aware human. Feedback human life voice self image. Feedback centuries of pre lived humans all thinking differently.

    Over consciousness bio life Multi DNA bio human experiences shared.

    Consciousness that transforms our own.

    Taught in natural human identified reasoning.

    Just a bio life in nearly water oxygen content by percentile bio body living form.

    Stated as self evident.

    Water created in space first by itself never owned the cosmic self consuming energy journey.

    Science uses water to combat reactive science.

    Obvious water mass and human conditions taught us. As a human self owned experience. Compares self to a monkey knows we are a developed higher bio consciousness. By dominion status a human life form.

    By identifying lower conscious preceding forms are not conscious like we humans are.

    Don't need to lie in any thesis as science already stated humans living are their own consciousness.

    We are all one self. Imagine everyone else gone. Your own one self who you really are would own no need to fancify information.

    Hence as each human is just one self that status should be honoured first.

    New thesis said for self following.
     
  2. WonderingWorrier

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    238
    Ratings:
    +97
    Religion:
    The Wheel.
    I can only try to imagine what having your tinnitus would be like. I guess the constant sound of crickets and a machine could either drive someone insane not being able to get away from it, or getting so used to it can hardly notice it until focusing on it. Like living with the constant sound of the ocean, wildlife, or on a busy street.
    I dont know.

    Strange how it changes into three sounds at night though. Is that just when you are laying down to sleep? I'm wondering if its a change of body position or its always there and closing your eyes heightens your hearing. Or its your mind quietening down and trying to make sense of the noises.

    About the different world thing.
    Are we able to define world as experiencing a sense of space?


    So could we define this place that we call reality as experiencing a shared sense of space?

    And could we also define having a dream as experiencing a personal sense of space?
     
  3. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    27,697
    Ratings:
    +12,570
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    You would perhaps know when the time comes. It is not that bad. You can rhyme the machine sound. :D
    I am not totally deaf. There are other sounds during the day like my wife scolding me. In the night the other sounds are not there, so brain manufactures its own sounds to replace them (as I understand it).
    Space can be defined (astronauts going out of the capsule). What is impossible to explain is 'absence of it' (absolute nothing). :)
    Yeah, we share many things among ourselves and even with animals. A tigress attacking its prey is very well aware of the coordinates.
    Dream-time is when most functions of brain are off-duty. Siesta, they are free to do their thing, and brain is cleaning and de-fragmenting memory files.
    All the above in my opinion.
     
  4. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,114
    Ratings:
    +382
    Religion:
    Catholic
    I tend to believe that science and spirituality are two ways to look at the same thing; consciousness. We have two centers of consciousness. Science is more about the ego, while religion is more about the inner self. Both are needed to get a full picture.

    The inner self is connected to the inner world of instinct and intuition. The ego is more connected to the outer world of learned knowledge. Both are used and both are needed. In computers, this break down would be hardware; ego, and software; inner self, both working together and are not at odds with each other.

    The inner world of software cannot be fully defined by the hardware. Like with computers, software can run with a wide range of hardware. The inner self is less limited by the superficial of hardware; tall or short, black or white. This software can run in all humans. The ego may benefit by certain hardware; tall.

    As an example, Aupmanyav discussed the condition of his tinnitus. We cannot fully know Aupmanyav's condition and its impact on him from the outside; science POV. We can narrow down some of the hardware source and we can empathize. But the condition also places him in a unique mental situation; unique data set, that only can see observed from the inside; observing unique software output. That type of data cannot be used by science, since it contradicts the philosophy of science; cannot be verified and duplicated in the lab. But it is real internal software data.

    Religion and the inner self are both based on this type of internal data; self observation through the matrix of meditation and prayer. Science narrowed its philosophy to only include the outer world of group verifiable sensory input. The anguish of the soul is internal data that is addressed more by religion and psychology; soft science. But this is part of a complete picture of consciousness; hardware, software and firmware.

    Religious classic strategies like fasting will cause a disturbance in the hardware. The software will become more engaged to help restore the balance. Observations of how the software deals with this problem tells us something of its coding. The ancient had lots of good internal data.

    Exploring the unconscious mind to reach the inner self often becomes the art of inducing conditions where you can become the scientist and the experiment at the same time. This is not always easy, since as the experiment, your objectivity can weaken as your become distracted by your internal immersion. But this does show you your two centers in action. When objectivity is low the power of prayer can get the inner self, to help you back so you can record data. Eventually, you can see patterns within the software and firmware.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    19,016
    Ratings:
    +2,347
    What is/are the source/s of one's knowledge then, please? Is it mere conjecture, please?

    Regards
     
  6. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    I think man proved his science self wrong.

    Said only a planet was God. And it ended sealed O God the body. Science status said O only and nothing beyond. Gods whole creation was within only O.

    As pretending science by the gases that were released from the O sealed body is ludicrous.

    As in fact science stated the law science ended as O just the body type.

    Why they said no man is God O the no zero mass that owned no beginning.

    As space kept opening into larger space removal of timed mass converting consuming until spatial expansion pressure stopped the loss.

    Empty space says no time.

    Consumed mass maybe by billions of energy sourced consumed as an inferred number to infer how much mass consumed by a count process is gone. To state science the law is to consume being what invention owns.

    Man hence says we experience time on earth only by counting as earth rotates.

    No time rationally he says.

    Consuming of mass he said changed energy into new forms. Gods destruction conversions it's proof.

    So he said God is not a machine design by maths it is just mass owning no design at all.

    As God he said a planet acts like a living being itself as it's body changes constantly via its natural form.

    Yet he wanted control. The method to own control was by design. As design abstracted machine and source from the God form.

    The living God hence was nothing like a machine controlled by its human designer.

    Design. Science human chosen then attacked converted our natural life.

    As the effects not from the tree of life sines owned the design attack.

    As stone was not a metal.

    So man took mind life and body and put his living human female partner into abstract reasoning. Man partnered his machine to own forced control. Change.

    And he implemented change to our life body human and female mother.

    By false pretence man and machine.

    When man and female humans were in perfect mutual balances.

    When men use machines to assert their science format then the machines equals his designed machine answers as the designer human scientist.

    And he proves he is possessed by machine thoughts by conscious assessments and statements. When men introduced the machine theirselves.

    When a bio human medically is stated to be a high percentile water with some bio chemistry we are nothing like a machine. Controlled by its man designer a human.

    Natural places his human female life partner at his side. His belief he replaced life with the machine body making man the God of his designed creation conversion of natural form.

    If you cared to relate consciousness where it belongs.
     
  7. Jacob Samuelson

    Joined:
    Aug 7, 2018
    Messages:
    165
    Ratings:
    +102
    Religion:
    Christ- The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints
    Knowledge is birthed from intelligence which was given to us from God. Like a seed it grows and develops in stages throughout ones life branching into where ever it desires. As long as that seed is nourished by love and a proper foundation, knowledge can have many roots or sources from where it obtains more nourishment allowing it to grow in many ways.
     
  8. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    The eternal being in the eternal is not in creation.

    As the creator unconditional loving being it lost a portion of its body into creation and space is its body womb only

    The thin veil surrounding O God bodies once in forming released were emerging by a choice. To change by applied cause was inside the eternal body itself. Why a womb formed..

    So when God bodies held unnaturally forced the thin veil eternal surrounding God drawn up from its mass it caused the eternal o change and it did so by exploding.

    Water formed in space as the surrounding mass birth waters versus burning mass. The gods who went to hell consuming their owned bodies oooooomultiples of them.

    Exploding or holding form. Why we are NOT God.

    Consuming opened space. Water was creations highest form. How a womb was caused inside the still existing eternal.

    And eternal does not release into any God body. It was a one of cause only.

    Eventually God earth was held.

    We did come direct out of the eternal being. We inherited a lesser being by water and oxygen conditions so immersed into a conscious state as the highest in creation.

    The only reason we know as conversion takes the higher form away into destruction so if you claim consciousness is the highest form it would be destroyed and not exist. As a created history.

    We proved ourselves that we came as an eternal being into creation direct and inherited karmic cause relating to causing change.

    So we know and teach never change natural ever again as we already know.
     
  9. paarsurrey

    paarsurrey Veteran Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2012
    Messages:
    19,016
    Ratings:
    +2,347
    If one cannot even name one's the sources explicitly, then it means one has only conjectures and none else for sure, I understand, please. Right?

    Regards
     
  10. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Science says by human thinking a higher state still exists.

    Logic. To theory by human awareness. As a human advised by mind communicative idealism.

    Human wisdom states what once was higher was converted changed consumed cooled blasting converting cooling by pressures as space opened as more first mass was consumed.

    Origin gone by fact of advice the science condition converting laws.

    Two mind advices owned by the human.

    Science hence directly says as the same human consciousness that it Idealises and knows that the higher body itself still exists.

    Otherwise they would not be seeking it. Idealising it. Or theorising about it.
    As science cosmic fact says destroyed only.

    As it is informed in our natural conscious mind that one higher form once a body is now destroyed and evolved.

    Why rationally science cannot argue against what we all know. The eternal only origin form still exists minused the created presence and our life spirit came out of it only after earths heavens existed.

    Why a human can claim God the planet heavens caused our living presence as it became by atmosphere causes the lowest level reformed next to the eternal body.

    Space is the emptiest body and is not the eternal.
     
  11. WonderingWorrier

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    238
    Ratings:
    +97
    Religion:
    The Wheel.
    I used to call the place unreality.
    Its not this place we call reality.
    But more structured than a dream. I started being able to lucid dream afterwards.

    Not this world, not dream world.
    A forest world. Trees and grass. And people I don't know (except one friend who came to me, that had died earlier).

    I once wondered why I still breathe there so went out into the water of either a large lake or ocean and inhaled. Felt water flow down my throat and fill my lungs. Then I felt the water flow back out as I breathed out. I could feel the water moving in and out as I continued to breathe.

    I slept there. Awoke thinking I was back in reality until I felt the grass under me.

    I have felt myself being two of me. One in the forest, one in reality, and we were both aware of each other. Two consciousnesses.

    I was not religious. Thought it was all in my head, a personal space my mind had created.
    Then something happened and I started looking into religion.

    I wonder about Gautama.
    I wonder if he meditated into another world within his mind, then began meditating again.
    I remember reading something about one becoming many, and then one.

    Here it is:

    "And he will never infer of me according to Dhamma: 'That Blessed One enjoys the various kinds of supernormal power: having been one, he becomes many; having been many, he becomes one; he appears and vanishes; he goes unhindered through a wall, through an enclosure, through a mountain, as though through space; he dives in and out of the earth as though it were water; he walks on water without sinking as though it were earth; seated cross-legged, he travels in space like a bird; with his hand he touches and strokes the moon and sun so powerful and mighty; he wields bodily mastery even as far as the Brahma-world.'
    Maha-sihanada Sutta: The Great Discourse on the Lion's Roar (accesstoinsight.org)


    I wonder as meditation leads to another world, then what would meditation in that world lead to.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Rational humans can personally choose to change their owned body conditions

    Meditation is a human applied choice to force a state upon their own being by a human choice. A human practice.

    Your personal brain status hence changes and causes you to feel versus what life's natural everyday recordings asserts bio chemically as feedback to the imposed...forced status

    Yet the whole time you have not actually changed as unless you meditate twenty four hours you live.

    I meditated where it felt like I was lifting away. I instantly opened my eyes knew it was just brain changes.

    All stories told by just humans. All humans born by human sex.

    The mind says but the first two humans were not born by human sex as informed only.
     
  13. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    27,697
    Ratings:
    +12,570
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    Science first, philosophy second, IMHO.
    Whatever, keep your feet on the ground even if it is an unreality. Buddha accepted two realities, none cannot be disregarded.

    "The Buddhist doctrine of the two truths (Wylie: bden pa gnyis) differentiates between two levels of satya (Sanskrit; Pali: sacca; word meaning truth or reality) in the teaching of the Buddha: the "conventional" or "provisional" (saṁvṛti) truth, and the "ultimate" (paramārtha) truth."
    Two truths doctrine - Wikipedia
     
    #33 Aupmanyav, Sep 9, 2021
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2021
  14. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    Natural is first created creation.

    Then a human whose human claim is I came into conscious Awareness of self. Just a human.

    Once spiritually recorded I was a better man with spirit. A pre formed lived human man. Now I live a changed man by the science nature.

    What thoughts aren't human?

    Answer...science thoughts are not human.

    Human thoughts for the human.being only relate to just the human body spirit conscious human.

    Mainly water. Only bio chemicals.

    Before the hu man event is water mass.

    A human two of one body human are by science referenced data beginning to end a human deceased.

    Science the teaching about an adult human.

    Medical advice the healer. Sex before the adult human dies brings forth a human baby who also dies at any time.

    Consciousness a baby human or an adult human dies. Both experiences known by the adult human.

    Science as data says no human exists we are only surviving by self procreation.

    The facts of human science said about humans.

    Human self living I don't listen to science advice I am living until I die.

    Science tells a truth humans by form already deceased.

    Science hence lies about humans pre creation as we are created and deceased in the same facts human.
     
  15. WonderingWorrier

    Joined:
    Jan 7, 2020
    Messages:
    238
    Ratings:
    +97
    Religion:
    The Wheel.


    I do like the "is the glass half full or half empty?" saying.

    "Is the glass half empty or half full?" is a common expression, a proverbial phrase, generally used rhetorically to indicate that a particular situation could be a cause for pessimism (half-empty) or optimism (half full), or as a general litmus test to simply determine an individual's worldview.[1] The purpose of the question is to demonstrate that the situation may be seen in different ways depending on one's point of view and that there may be opportunity in the situation as well as trouble.[1]

    Another perspective comes from psychology, where research has shown that a speaker's choice of frame can reflect their knowledge of the environment, and that listeners can be sensitive to this information.[2][3]

    Technically it is a syntax error since changing the "or" to "and" removes the confusion and allows both conditions to exist at the same time. The question presents the two conditions of the glass as options when in reality the conditions are simultaneous and are not optional"

    .Is the glass half empty or half full? - Wikipedia

    [​IMG]


    I can see something else in it.
    I see the glass is half full of air.
    I see the glass also half empty of air.


    I am not well educated in Buddhist teachings.


    But I know what appears to be contradiction can just be different views of the same truth.
    And I also know what appears to be lies can also appear as truth.



    "In the past, unskillful behavior was unknown among the human race. As a result, people lived for an immensely long time — 80,000 years — endowed with great beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength. Over the course of time, though, they began behaving in various unskillful ways. This caused the human life span gradually to shorten, to the point where it now stands at 100 years, with human beauty, wealth, pleasure, and strength decreasing proportionately. In the future, as morality continues to degenerate, human life will continue to shorten to the point were the normal life span is 10 years".

    "With the recovery of virtue, the human life span will gradually increase again until it reaches 80,000 years"

    Cakkavatti Sutta: The Wheel-turning Emperor (accesstoinsight.org)



    It is said that Gautama is the eldest in the world:


    "I am chief of the world,

    Eldest in the world. This is the last birth.

    There will be [henceforth for me] no more re-becoming."

    Miracles of Gautama Buddha - Wikipedia


    So perhaps age is a measurement of a man.
    And Gautama is the highest man of that measurement.
     
  16. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    27,697
    Ratings:
    +12,570
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    I have my own Buddha (i.e., views about what he said and what he meant). I do not agree with all 'suttas'. Like Buddha said in 'Kesamutti Sutta', I agree with what seems correct to me. Naturally, I believe that Buddha may not have said what is claimed in the above sutta, about humans having a life of 80,000 years. If Budha said that, he must be talking to a very dumb person.

    "nor upon another's seeming ability (bhabba-rūpatāya),
    nor upon the consideration, The monk is our teacher (samaṇo no garū)"
    Kesamutti Sutta - Wikipedia
     
  17. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    In the past a one world male wise man agreed lawful statement to implement criminal lAw as a human justice system.

    It involved scientists.

    As criminals.

    By virtue that men humans had imposed that their human spiritual mother in nature as a human was expressed in an evil language as science formulas.

    Fake life. We are not data or a formula.

    Real life was whole self presence natural abiding with the conditions nature on planet earth.

    Reasoning man's self destructive nature from his baby innocent man in his mother's presence to man adult abuser destroyer mentality. Human.

    To discuss non presence as the constant. Evil of science as a rational human known teaching.

    Light constant in science is non presence. The light is not the constant in natural living saved life.

    Immaculate is first whole heavens highest presence.

    Light voided darkness becomes coldest presence in the lower form light removed gas spirit. In the heavens. State two from highest to lowest man's science teaching.

    Whole term known.

    Light in science was false idealism.

    Known today.

    Man says my god science says the veils gases by colours in heavens are implied and are fake science female term.

    Says his man body is Phi. No human is Phi. The statement Phi can only equal Phi only.

    So he puts the heavens gases taken from gods earth body nothing like a heavens. Puts what he says falsely is earths heavens inside a machine reaction.

    Reacts it.

    Says I believe it is Jesus.

    Then says whole face of earth God removed. I am in thoughts a thesis about earth a man god sitting in space as pretence O God science earths natural form.

    I am safe by pretending I am the God body in science yet in theory I have reacted my man spirit as Jesus Phi inside machine.

    As I am in theory an alien man controlling my machine. Man theisms. About UFO pretending life began with UFO.

    As the alien man I put my not yet owned human man spirit inside a machine the burn it up. Jesus man a resource thesis.

    I am safe as I am an alien in space.

    Is the same human man scientist theist who says I believe my first human self is Satan in space. As a human.

    Is the same exact human scientist theist today.

    Why law by world agreement tried to contend with an irradiated change in man community legally. Yet the criminal justice system could not.

    What men in natural human life realised about men in science. They theoried human life destruction as a data inferred machine condition earth heavens.

    Hence men in science like Stephen Hawking realised how evil men in science are rationally.

    Originally the temple churches did not preach science in any term. They preached nature's survival and natural life. Healing of body Mind human spirit as the subject.

    Science came back to earth 1000 years ago by star fall and re irradiated possesed the psyche of men again as scientists involving the occult.

    Nature spirituality as humans on earth tried to teach it's practices vainly as it still had in fact involved scientific mentality in the life of men.
     
  18. wellwisher

    wellwisher Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2018
    Messages:
    1,114
    Ratings:
    +382
    Religion:
    Catholic
    These two truths are associated with the two centers of consciousness. The ego uses science and logic with logic 2-D; cause and affect. The inner self sees the same data but uses 3-D logic; affect, cause, affect, and cause, affect, cause. Science will try to isolate nature but nothing is truly isolated since all is part of larger integrations, being touched both before and after.

    Science tries to compensate with the mystery cult of randomness to make up the difference. If evolution needs life to begin; first cells, science calls upon the god of random to make it happen with no sense of how. They will worship with math oracles to summon that god.
     
  19. Aupmanyav

    Aupmanyav Be your own guru

    Joined:
    May 5, 2007
    Messages:
    27,697
    Ratings:
    +12,570
    Religion:
    Atheist, Advaita (Non-duality), Orthodox Hindu
    Your answer is neither science, nor philosophy. So, I have nothing against your answer.
     
  20. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2020
    Messages:
    6,517
    Ratings:
    +340
    Religion:
    spiritualist
    The man science ego status one human is exhibited in science.

    In life two humans exist logic as natural.

    One man is typified as the scientist who theories as a thinker against himself.

    As natural man thinking is origin man.

    So he predisposes life to destruction by claiming I am half man. Half woman.

    Yet his father separate no scientist is one whole bodied human man.

    Yet his mother separate no scientist one whole bodied human woman.

    Theist lying quoted half man half woman as sex ovary owned life. Natural is first quoted. What lying as a human scientist means.

    Yet in science quote half man human half thinker is about female mother space womb theist as science.

    Is a liar

    His man body no female ovary womb or bleeding female life. In his living whole human man body. Man human self origin as one self but relies on two one selves in nature.

    Get the message yet brothers why you attacked your man life cell body to bleed like your sisters body does.

    As theists men as humans lied.

    Science did not invent life.

    Creation was never a human thesis.
     
Loading...