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Spiritual Enlightenment: what is it/what it is.

Kirran

Premium Member
Another really good question is, "How can those of us in the cheap seats discern who actually knows what they are talking about?"

Speaking only via text on an Internet forum is not helpful in that regard.

Having met people who know what they're on about in person, you can generally tell.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Speaking only via text on an Internet forum is not helpful in that regard.

Having met people who know what they're on about in person, you can generally tell.
While true, there should be, stress should be, indicators like a refined sense of humor, a distinct sensation of compassion and last, but hardly least, serenity... in that they won't blow their cool when chatting with others. Likewise, said enlightened will likely talk to their target audience in terms that audience readily understands. In other words, they will likely be an excellent communicator. They talk to you, not at you.

This is my direct experience, at least, as any "evolved" folks I have met radiated these qualities.
 
There is no 'better' answer. Enlightenment is beyond all words; beyond all descriptions. All one can do is either tell what it is not, or silently point to it. It is an inner experience, not one of intellectual objectivity, and because of that, the thinking mind must first cease all of its activites.

Enlightenment is simply to see things as they actually are, rather than to see them as the mind thinks they are.

The thinking mind creates concepts about Reality, and then attempts to make Reality fit its conceptual framework. Science must be understood within the context of Reality, and not the other way around.

You get the crow prize for stating the obvious, which is something almost nobody else can see, let alone understand.
Superb post! And as I know: although you do not need it, a little encouragement and appreciation can go a long way.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
While true, there should be, stress should be, indicators like a refined sense of humor, a distinct sensation of compassion and last, but hardly least, serenity... in that they won't blow their cool when chatting with others. Likewise, said enlightened will likely talk to their target audience in terms that audience readily understands. In other words, they will likely be an excellent communicator. They talk to you, not at you.

This is my direct experience, at least, as any "evolved" folks I have met radiated these qualities.

Yeah, those seem decent rule-of-thumb style things. As much as you can describe such folks.

Some can even be quite abrasive, in a way, but that's more about the ego of the person talking to them, that kinda thing.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Yeah, those seem decent rule-of-thumb style things. As much as you can describe such folks.

Some can even be quite abrasive, in a way, but that's more about the ego of the person talking to them, that kinda thing.


At one time I think I was sort of interested in this 'I'm God' thing. Not so much any more.

List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

None of the people/souls I've ever met who were asked by others to teach ever made the claim.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
At one time I think I was sort of interested in this 'I'm God' thing. Not so much any more.

List of people claimed to be Jesus - Wikipedia

None of the people/souls I've ever met who were asked by others to teach ever made the claim.

Guess it depends how they mean it. Some people are legitimately identified with God, but that's different to having a taste of that 'I am God' experience but still being ego-identified, which maybe is what causes the muddle-up. Who knows. Hopefully both you and I will avoid it when our time comes.
 
A crowfeather is not the entire crow. Yet without a crowfeather, the crow is not entire.
One aware of God is not God, Yet without awareness of what God is, in all God's parts, God is not God.
Those with no awareness of God are without God and are separate.
Everything that is, is of God, until it decrees that God is non-existent.
Doing so, it becomes non-existent, too.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
Guess it depends how they mean it. Some people are legitimately identified with God, but that's different to having a taste of that 'I am God' experience but still being ego-identified, which maybe is what causes the muddle-up. Who knows. Hopefully both you and I will avoid it when our time comes.


The trap is spoken of yes. I go back to Ramana and the discussion of what 'I' is. which is at the core of the traditional advaita versus the neo-advaita debate.

In Paul Brunton's book, he contrasted Meher Baba especially with Ramana. Meher Baba had a ton of 'Holllywood' followers at one time, but few, if any are left. Ramana, OTOH, is still an attractive figure for searchers.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
The trap is spoken of yes. I go back to Ramana and the discussion of what 'I' is. which is at the core of the traditional advaita versus the neo-advaita debate.

In Paul Brunton's book, he contrasted Meher Baba especially with Ramana. Meher Baba had a ton of 'Holllywood' followers at one time, but few, if any are left. Ramana, OTOH, is still an attractive figure for searchers.

I think Ramana Maharshi is a very legit dude. Him and Ramakrishna are the really big ones of recent times for me.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
I think Ramana Maharshi is a very legit dude. Him and Ramakrishna are the really big ones of recent times for me.
At Tiruvannamalai he seemed to be smiling down from the pictures everywhere with the message, "This is my town, everything will be okay." Brunton's book is a great read. Of course my sampradaya has great respect as he and Yogaswami met plus the legitimacy of it all. Ramakrishna, well, somewhat different approach for sure.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
At Tiruvannamalai he seemed to be smiling down from the pictures everywhere with the message, "This is my town, everything will be okay." Brunton's book is a great read. Of course my sampradaya has great respect as he and Yogaswami met plus the legitimacy of it all. Ramakrishna, well, somewhat different approach for sure.

You've been there? I didn't know.

Yogaswami evidently had a lot of respect for Ramakrishna as well - when young people were coming to him interested in the life of a renunciate, he'd refer them to the Ramakrishna Mission, which had (and still has) a math in Colombo.
 

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
You've been there? I didn't know.

Yogaswami evidently had a lot of respect for Ramakrishna as well - when young people were coming to him interested in the life of a renunciate, he'd refer them to the Ramakrishna Mission, which had (and still has) a math in Colombo.
We still refer people to the Ramakrishna Mission, and others. We have a list. For anybody over 25, or those who are looking for a less strict monastery, they get the list. Good to have a variety.

Neither Yogaswami nor Ramana had a math.

So when you move, are there formal vows?
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
A considerably better effort than that provided by @crowfeather but still, not particularly persuasive. I guess a good exit question would be, "What makes you so sure that you are competent enough or capable of offering any cogent answers about enlightenment?" @crowfeather is welcome to answer that one too.

Another really good question is, "How can those of us in the cheap seats discern who actually knows what they are talking about?"

When accidentally falling into a cold mountain lake, how do you know the water to be cold?
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
When accidentally falling into a cold mountain lake, how do you know the water to be cold?
I am aware enough of the natural world to know well in advance that many mountain streams are very cold. I don't need to fall in to verify this. I'm not sure how you can link this to my questions without either admitting to being enlightened or using an Appeal to Authority variant.
 

Kirran

Premium Member
We still refer people to the Ramakrishna Mission, and others. We have a list. For anybody over 25, or those who are looking for a less strict monastery, they get the list. Good to have a variety.

Neither Yogaswami nor Ramana had a math.

So when you move, are there formal vows?

Interesting, I didn't know that. The Ramakrishna Mission kinda is and isn't strict. Different maths vary a bit too.

I'd be interested to see the list.

There are sadhus who go and live at Ramana's ashram, mind.

Not when I move. Nor if I were to stay for the "postulant" phase (which is like probationary brahmachari), but if I was to stay on a permanent basis after that went well then yeah.

I am aware enough of the natural world to know well in advance that many mountain streams are very cold. I don't need to fall in to verify this. I'm not sure how you can link this to my questions without either admitting to being enlightened or using an Appeal to Authority variant.

That's cos you're an iceman!
 

godnotgod

Thou art That
I am aware enough of the natural world to know well in advance that many mountain streams are very cold. I don't need to fall in to verify this. I'm not sure how you can link this to my questions without either admitting to being enlightened or using an Appeal to Authority variant.

You're not answering the question: I never asked you to verify anything; you are only saying you know the water is cold from memory and/or learning, but my question is how is it that you know the water to be cold the moment you come into contact with it in a completley unexpected manner? If you cannot understand the connection between this question and knowing beyond the shadow of a doubt what you are experiencing on a spiritual level, then you had best give up being so cock-sure about everything you've said on this thread thus far.

The very first foot you set forth on this thread is a mis-step, but your ego won't admit that.

As usual, you continue to miss the meanings of things: Enlightenment is not an experience one admits to, and if you really think that those who speak confidently about it are stooping to something as obviously inapplicable as an appeal to authority, then you are further away from being in touch with things than I surmised. We are attempting to point to an experience of which you obviously know nothing, and yet continue to blather on about it from a position of being on the outside looking in.
 
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Kirran

Premium Member
Well, a spiritual experience can be whatever it is to the one experiencing it, but there is absolutely no mistaking Spiritual Enlightenment.

Many teachers explicitly warn of the dangers of people doing so - people have some "lower" realisation or experience and take it for the whole thing.
 
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