1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Spirits, Ghosts, Demons, Prophets, Fortune Tellers, Healers, Mediums..... Real or Rubbish?

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by oldbadger, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Fair enough. That figures for dentists, bus drivers, etc :)
    I simply believe that some healers can heal, by whatever means.

    I have no knowledge of fortune tellers, but I don't take too much notice of biblical prophecies because they seem to have been cobbled to fit. :)
     
  2. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Sure.
    But science fails so badly, so often as well. And science doesn't always publish its mistakes.
    I only discovered, about a month ago (or so) that (40 years ago) our third child was born horrifically disabled not because of any problems with either of our genes but because my wife was being prescribed with drugs that had not been scientifically, independantly verified to be safe. And then the medical profession, together with the pharmaceutical profession, covered it all up.
    You couldn't make it up.
     
  3. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    40,751
    Ratings:
    +15,014
    Religion:
    Judaism
    First of all, you have my sympathy. My daughter also died from congenital issues.

    That said, what you describe is not the failure of science but, on the contrary, a failure to do science and the subordination of science to business interest. This is hardly an argument for wheeling kids out of the children's wards and giving them over to a bunch of delusional nut-jobs.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Thankyou, and I did read about your daughter on another thread, circa 2002? My sympathies to you also.

    Oh indeed. True Science is perfect knowledge, it's just these blooming humans that think they have found it when they haven't, and the corruption which then causes the cover ups.

    Nobody afaik has suggested that any of the words in the Thread Title are reason enough to leave what science we have behind.

    But you surely cannot take all mediums, spiritualists, healers tea-leaf readers and bunch 'em into the delusional nut-job lot? Oh.... alright, tea-leaf readers might be on slightly wobbly ground I suppose.

    Look up Harry Edwards, Leatherhead, Surrey, England Healer on google. My Seriously Epileptic and Clinically Hysterical wife met with Harry in 74' and thereafter for about three years she did not have a grande mal or serious pseudo-seizure until (about) 77'. I made to arrange for her to meet with Harry again but he had just died. After that her grand-mal (tonic-clonic) seizures returned and occured about once a week and her petit-mals about every day. Her pseudo-seizures were mostly nightly and were terrifying. My point is, that I don't think folks like Harry Edwards are nut jobs.
     
  5. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    40,751
    Ratings:
    +15,014
    Religion:
    Judaism
    By your own account, the people involved were not doing science. That is more than unfortunate. Nevertheless, good science is being done every day of the week and, in fact, enhancing and saving lives every day of the week. There is zero equivalency between the practitioners of science on the one hand and "Spirits, Ghosts, Demons, Prophets, Fortune Tellers, Healers, Mediums" on the other. To suggest otherwise is not only rubbish, its irresponsible.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Club Tropícana

    Club Tropícana New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2017
    Messages:
    11
    Ratings:
    +6
    Religion:
    No religion (atheist)
    I'm very sorry to hear that I can imagine this was very difficult for you and you have my compassion and empathy, what you seem to be describing however is a failure by people to do science properly followed by an attempt to hide this with a cover up.

    Science is the most reliably consistent method we have for figuring out the nature of the reality we live in.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Oh yes, there is little need to tell me about when folks get it right. My wife was saved by the pheo-team at Kings College Hostiptal in 2014. (Phaeo Chromo Cytoma).

    Good, so you've clicked on the reason for the thread.
    Some Faiths and religions talk about 'spiritual guidance' which they can receive, for instance in their decision making at local, national and world level.
    If a religion can actually receive such infallible piloting then that is really something.... ah yes..... they do claim that their assemblies, thus guided, are and would be infallible. OK?

    But....... I've been having great difficulty in obtaining a really clear answer about what this spirituality might be, and since (like you?) this group does not accept mediums, card readers, healers, fortune tellers blah blah but does accept prophets and numerology I thought that I would throw it open for a wider bunch of opinions.

    And so, please could you confirm (or deny) that you do not have any belief in any spirits, or mediums, ,,,,or prophets?
    :)
     
  8. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Thankyou.... :)
    And 'yes', that was/is exactly the case.
    That's the big problem, people call themselves 'scientist', claim to be producing 'science' and then, if and when their plane-design crashes, or their computer system fails, whatever, the world points at them and declares , 'Hmmm, that wasn't science.'
    And so the word science can hide as many quacks as the East Kent Tea Leaf Readers Society, and that's not sour grapes because I've never applied for membership in it. Yet. :p

    Science is about 'knowing'.
    It is people who figure out truth as best as they can..... we just call 'em scientists before they've proved that they truly are.
    So I don't follow 'facts' because somebody tells me it's science any more than I follow any other claims.
     
  9. Little Lunch

    Little Lunch Atheist

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    120
    Ratings:
    +78
    Religion:
    none
    I think it's all rubbish.
    I do believe in placebos though.
     
  10. Jayhawker Soule

    Jayhawker Soule <yawn> ignore </yawn>
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Messages:
    40,751
    Ratings:
    +15,014
    Religion:
    Judaism
    How cute: not just "any" but "any" -- a cheap little word that serves more to trap than to clarify. Nevertheless ...

    ... for the record (and with a shout-out to Karl Popper) I do not know if there are any spirits, mediums, prophets, ..., or white ravens, but I've seen no credible evidence supporting their existence.

    But I'll promise you this: the next time I see a white raven I'll make an appointment with a faith healer to address my back pain.​
     
  11. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Ha ha... You devalue the little words then.
    OK, so I could put you in the 'its all junk' bracket, that's fair enough.
    What do you think of words such as mystical and spiritual, then? I can't get a straight answer to that question from folks who use such words.

    As for the white raven, you have seen thousands in your life..... You just thought they were tatty seagulls. :)
     
  12. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2012
    Messages:
    20,558
    Ratings:
    +7,265
    Religion:
    deist
    Ahhhh...... so it's Good Science, now is it?

    Science is Science! Science isn't good, it's simply Science!Exact Science can also be the fitting of micro-processed systems to millions of diesel engined cars to cause innaccurate corrupt emmission readings.

    Don't be so easily mislead into believing that science is all good. I would think you're smarter than that.
     
Loading...